generulesity : 196

[–] [email protected] 409 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

This seems… reasonable..? They’re not telling you not to do this. It’s a safety measure in case 1. You either fat finger the tip screen and don’t realize it or 2. You write a $5 tip on your receipt and the waiter rings it up for $50. It probably triggers after 25 or 30% on a tip. Who cares?

I don’t really get a lot of people on this website. This is just a good faith, consumer friendly security check email and people will still read it and find a way to feel morally superior about it

[–] [email protected] 122 points 7 months ago (4 children)

A friend of mine got fucked by a local pizza place after the waitress changed a tip by adding a comma and a few zeros.

Pizza place refused to refund, credit card company wouldn't cancel the transaction because it was too large. We had to start a social media campaign to shame the place into refunding him. They turned a $15 tip into a $1,500 tip.

So I definitely appreciate stuff like this

[–] [email protected] 72 points 7 months ago

Sounds like they need a new credit card company. Mine wouldn’t even hesitate to cancel the transaction because it’s so obvious at that point.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

What credit card company? That seems like such blatant fraud.

Once my friend put total in place of tips. He was very drunk that day. He went over next day to talk to them and they obviously fixed it. That seems like common sense to me.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago

Tip cash.

If there is no mechanism to convey cash, the request for a tip is likely questionable.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I don't understand why credit cards are secured so badly in the states. Here you can't adjust a charge after it has been confirmed (plus you usually have to enter a pin whan swiping the card if the amount is over a certain threshold).

Kind of related: when my family went to the US for vacation and we ate at some restaurant, the waitress came with the bill, my dad said something like "make it $x". When she sait to just write in the tip on the bill and my dad told her that won't work she insisted that thats how it always works (which tbf it probably does for american customers). Sure enough when we checked the card statement later on they just took out the original amount, not the tip writen in.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Huh? There so so many protections with cards. All of my cards can very easily do a charge back and they’ll fight the charge with the retailer, not you. You only use a PIN for debit cards using a debit transaction because it’s a direct transfer, resulting in no card fees, very much the same as cash. No real credit cards have a PIN.

Edit: ah, I see they weren’t talking about American credit cards. My mistake! Interesting to learn that other countries do though.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Only in US. In many (most?) countries, credit cards do have PINs.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Ah, I misread that as American cards have PINs.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Server here, usually with restaurant Point of Sale systems the transaction isn't sent to be processed by the financial institution until the ticket is closed out. (Presumably because tipping culture 🙄) I don't blame your server for not putting her tip on there, if you get caught without sufficient ass-covering (having the guest initial the tip field is what I usually did) that's a fireable offence.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

I have always been very confused about whether the tip line on the receipt in the US works with my British cards given that I enter a PIN into a terminal that doesn't show that tip amount.

As of last year I'm pretty sure the tip is deducted from my card, but I don't think that has always been the case. I understand it works based on PIN-authenticated pre-authorisation for a higher amount and they later take your tip+bill from that pre-authorisation.

It doesn't seem very secure but the US always seems behind on card security.

When I first started travelling to the US for work restaurant staff were always extremely confused about why my card needed a PIN. They often tried again and again or said my card wouldn't go through, then worked out that it needed a PIN. Lots of places then had no way to hand you the terminal to enter it, like they would have to push aside mountains of junk to get the terminal out, or invite me round to the other side of the bar because it's literally screwed down.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Not sure why you weren't billed for the tip in your story. Having to write the tip amount down on the tip line of the bill is 100% how it always works in the US. You may have written it on the customer copy of the receipt, perhaps.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

It's because unlike with american cards you have to confirm the transaction on the card reader while it shows you the amount (with either a pin or signature in some cases). After you confirmed it the transaction cannot be changed, i.e. the tip cannot be added. So the american way of tipping does not work with foreign cards.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

OP wants to be sucked off for tipping 34%.

Comment section wants to be performative in hopes of also getting sucked off.

Welcome to lemmy.world!

edit: kill me

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Welcome to lemmy.world!

Neither the OP, this community, you or the person you are replying to are on lemmy.world.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Welp, I've brought great shame onto my instance, so I must now commit Japanese ritual suicide. Sayonara, everybody!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm on lemmy.world! Who do I suck off? Or do you all suck me? Hell, let's make it a suck fest!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

You can suck me but I'm not sure if that's allowed since I'm also not on Lemmy.world

[–] [email protected] 92 points 7 months ago (1 children)

it’s just making sure an employee didn’t give themselves a big tip without your consent
it’s nice of you to tips that much and that’s on you.
I so disagree with the tip culture. Companies need to pay a living wage without requiring the generosity of customers to survive.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

And the bank sends you this "warning" because they're just nice people and love you so, so much. Gee, I feel so warm and fuzzy inside.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Or they send you this because they don’t want you to send complain of fraudulent transactions and have to eat the cost later on… happy now?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

~~I'm more inclined to think that it's a dark pattern to shame you into keeping the money in ~~thei...erm~~ your account. You know, where they can use it.~~

~~Because I don't think there would be much room to complain, after the fact, about a price you already agreed to pay, and paid. But yeah, thanks for your answer. 🙂~~

Edit: that was wrong, apparently US banks get more from a customer's funds when the customer spends more, than they do when said customer has money saved up.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Tell me you don’t know how tips work without telling me.

I had a small coffee shop put a 100% tip on my card. Went back the next day and they wouldn’t fix it, so I called the credit company and had it charged back.

Something like this would be very helpful to someone who doesn’t check their statements weekly like I do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

Tell me you don’t know how tips work without telling me.

Tell me you don’t know how tips are in the US without telling me. FTFY.

Yeah so I'm from good ol' Europe, where we tip as a feedback for a stellar service, not as an attempt try and help service workers get food and shelter to survive another week. So yeah, no, I don't know how "tips work", because apparently that also implies giving your credit card to another person, letting them go out of your sight with it, and charge you whatever the hell they want. I would also never give my credit card to anyone else. Either you got a means of payment where my CC doesn't leave my hand, or you will get cash. I'm not handing out my entire bank account to a rando.

Edit: s/it/my CC/ # for clarity

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm not going to shame you for being a eurobrain, but why would you start talking authoritatively on the deranged state of North American tipping culture when you dont seem to understand how it works?

It's surprisingly common for cashiers to re-enter your tip amount for you when they reset the machine if there was an issue with your transaction, or maybe they fudged the automatic gratuity on a large party, or maybe the person needed assistance with the machine and the cashier decided that was their chance.... Unfortunately when people's incomes rely on tips, and a tip is expected on every meal, it's only a matter of time before someone takes advantage, and unfortunately some people just... Aren't super observant.

As terrible as Capital One is (extremely bad), this isn't a dark pattern to keep you from spending money, they get more out of you if you spend more on your Credit card because of the interest on repayments.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

how it works

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/addressing-the-u-s-homelessness-crisis/

https://fortune.com/europe/2022/07/12/how-to-end-homelessness-finland-solution-housing-first/

If I were you, I'd be a tad more cautious with the use of that word, "works". Seems a lil bit overblown for what you are talking about.

It's surprisingly common for cashiers to re-enter your tip amount for you when they reset the machine if there was an issue with your transaction

If you don't check the amount before entering the pin, it's a you problem. If you give away your CC and assume the person has integrity, it's a you problem. If the person is threatening you, it is a robbery. But then, you are legally allowed to literally kill them, right?

Unfortunately when people's incomes rely on tips

I'll refer you to the bit above about the word "works". Not gonna repeat myself. Running a business isn't simple, but fortunately, not everything is complicated: if you can't afford having employees, then don't. If you can't afford running your business without employees, then don't. There's a reason it is called a "business plan" and not a "business guess".

As terrible as Capital One is (extremely bad)

I have found literally one good bank so far. One. Among the 5 countries I lived in.

this isn't a dark pattern to keep you from spending money, they get more out of you if you spend more on your Credit card because of the interest on repayments.

Fair, I'll admit: this makes sense. I know (not from first hand experience, but there are enough accounts online to make this common knowledge) that the credits in the US are extremely predatory. Worse than that, the entire system is designed to make you fail. So yeah, OK, you are right, point taken, I'll correct what I wrote on the prior comment.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

If I were you, I'd be a tad more cautious with the use of that word, "works".

If I were you I'd focus on the word "it" in the sentence you are referring to.
Here "it" means "tipping culture", not "The US in its entirety" so I don't know what the fuck your links have to do with the conversation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You'll get a lot farther with people being kinder in their corrections of your incorrect presumptions if you vibe check yourself and cool it with the providing the enlightened eurobrain takes.

If I were you, I'd be a tad more cautious with the use of that word, "works". Seems a lil bit overblown for what you are talking about.

I know the north american tipping system is a top-down broken trash fire. You'll find that I never actually endorsed the system, just commented on the reality of it. It's possible for someone to acknowledge how something works ("how it works" =/= an endorsement of functionality) while understanding that the system itself is negatively impactful to those inside it

If you don't check the amount before entering the pin, it's a you problem.

I'm not an American, so someone else is free to correct me, but most of the US is still being introduced to chip cards. I believe there's still places where it's not exactly uncommon for the server to swipe for you.

But then, you are legally allowed to literally kill them, right?

Holy bad faith Batman

if you can't afford having employees, then don't.

Yes... I agree. I never actually endorsed the north american system though?

A cursory glance at your profile tells me that we're probably roughly equally far left, so why are you trying to start a war here when I was merely trying to correct your functional understanding of a system.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You'll get a lot farther with people being kinder in their corrections of your incorrect presumptions if you vibe check yourself and cool it with the providing the enlightened eurobrain takes.

I don't know that my "presumptions" were incorrect. And I don't care much for kindness when we're talking about a system that takes from the poor to give to the rich.

I know the north american tipping system is a top-down broken trash fire. You'll find that I never actually endorsed the system, just commented on the reality of it. It's possible for someone to acknowledge how something works ("how it works" =/= an endorsement of functionality) while understanding that the system itself is negatively impactful to those inside it

Oh, and I'm pretty sure a vast majority of the upvotes you got on your comment are from people who actually think it does work.

Because, yes, "how it works" is an endorsement. I would never say "how burning coal to reduce CO2 emissions works". It doesn't.

"How it is supposed to work", or "how it is designed", aren't necessarily endorsements, but, yeah, again, nobody said that, and people really think it works: they think they are getting lower prices as customers, which they aren't, and that somehow, deciding themselves how much the service worker should take home is both a good idea and something that lets said worker have a fulfilling life, which it absolutely isn't.

Now, essentially, to break things down a little and reduce the amount of goalpost moving:

user "Zron" wrote that I didn't understand "how tipping works", which in actuality meant "how handling the cards happen over here", which is an entirely different thing.

Any monkey can tell "how tipping works", that's why the system is currently used. You take a price, multiply it by 1 + (tip/100) and you pay that. The seller gets more money than they were supposed to. And that is the way it works on the entire planet.

So the discussion at hand is about two separate topics:

How means of payment get mismanaged.
The "custom" of paying someone slavery wages, and expecting them to coerce random people into giving them enough money not to die.

So I'll answer in two parts:

I - Mismanagement of means of payments

This reflects a different view on trust. In Europe, different countries have very different customs about trust management and means of payments. For example, while, in Germany, you legally have to go to the police station within weeks of moving in a new place, to declare your new address, and have your German ID card show your current address always; in France, people have random addresses on their ID (where they were born, or where they lived years ago), and no one knows where anyone lives. As a consequence of that, in Germany, you only have to show your ID, but in France, you need to show recent invoices tied to your address (from the electricity or gas company, for example). Anyway, I digress.

I'm not an American, so someone else is free to correct me, but most of the US is still being introduced to chip cards. I believe there's still places where it's not exactly uncommon for the server to swipe for you.

Yeah so that is somewhat news to me. I'm aware of the "waiter swiping your card for you, it getting declined, and the waiter cutting your card in two" trope. I never realised that chips on cards were a European thing.

My point here is: your money, your means of payments. If you give those to someone else, then, practically, for all intents and purposes, it is their money.

They could overcharge you. They could copy your card's information and buy stuff online at a later date. They could sell that information to brokers on the dark net. Why would one do that?? Why???!

II - Paying people slavery wages

if you can't afford having employees, then don't.

Yes... I agree. I never actually endorsed the north american system though?

I believe you didn't intend to. I also believe a lot of those who upvoted you totally think you did.

When you write things like:

why would you start talking authoritatively on the deranged state of North American tipping culture when you dont seem to understand how it works?

It totally means:

"It works"
You (meaning me) do not understand cross multiplication
You (meaning me) are talking out of your ass

When all those 3 things are false.

I was missing information on how bad exactly it was with the mismanagement of people's means of payment (which I addressed above), and this is the only part that can be construed as me "not understanding" something (even tho, that would be incorrect: "understanding" and "knowing" are vastly different concepts, and not knowing someone is stupid doesn't mean that you do not understand what stupidity is).

See, my issue with all this, is: in my view, the only appropriate way to react to that system is to trash it. Anyone being even neutral to it kinda means some level of acceptance to me.

It is bad. Destroying families bad.

Oh, and:

But then, you are legally allowed to literally kill them, right?

Holy bad faith Batman

Not "bad faith". Just a totally unrelated, other American thing that I also hate. Gun violence. I added it as a cheeky joke, I never meant for it to be taken seriously in the present context, but it is still very real. Why is it still a thing, I will never understand. That, you can say, I do not understand.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

All your explanation is neat and all, but I'm going to stop engaging. You're refuting/attacking points that are systemically related to what I'm talking about, but aren't actual values I hold, nor have I indicated I hold them. I will however address 2 things you said, just for fun:

I believe you didn't intend to. I also believe a lot of those who upvoted you totally think you did.

Argue with them when they comment with incorrect interpretations then? Why are you arguing with me about how my (in my opinion) incredibly clear non-endorsement of a system could have been interpreted by some people that left upvotes?

It is bad. Destroying families bad.

Yes? Again, nominally I agree with everything you've said, you just dont understand the north american tipping system, or that saying "how it works" is not the same as saying "how this good and well designed system functions"

Oh and for what it's worth, I promise you that the upvotes on my comment in fucking 196 weren't because of some imagined endorsement for tipping culture or capitalism (again, we're in 196). They were most likely because you are being truly insufferable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Hey, for what it's worth, I appreciate your efforts to remain nice with an insufferable old man yelling at clouds. Thanks 🙏

And I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, this stuff is actually being read by more people than we know. Correctness matters. Even if that makes me beyond annoying to you.

I hope you have a great day and I wish you all the best. 🙂

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Credit card isn’t a bank account, it’s a line of credit. you can freeze credit and charge it back for fraudulent purchases.

I guess you never buy anything off the internet then either.

And if you do buy off the internet, you should use credit, as it’s much safer to freeze a credit card than your entire bank account if your card gets leaked.

Also don’t get why you’re being so hostile to a comment that’s simply explaining how a different works. Must be a European thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Credit card isn’t a bank account, it’s a line of credit. you can freeze credit and charge it back for fraudulent purchases.

Tell me you have never lived outside of North America without telling me you have never lived outside of North America.

I do have a credit card, but I do not have a "line of credit". In fact, I didn't fucking know what it was until today. I didn't even know it existed.

See, the way it works for me, is: I have money, and the credit card lets me buy something without charging it immediately to my checking account. My balance still displays the sum of the positive amount of my checking account and the negative amount of my credit card. So, for example, let's say I have 10k on my checking account, and use 2k off of my credit card, my balance will be 8k. It lets me go "in the virtual red" for 2k I think, and only until the day of the month where the money is transferred from my checking account to my credit card account. This allows for a certain flexibility with paying dues on time, even when you haven't been paid yet. Even if I had 0 on my checking account, I could use my CC for paying various stuff, and THEN get paid for a job, without any fees of any kind. That's the point. There's no "score" or "line" or whatever scam designed to make people fail and then charge them insane fees and interests so they can't get back on their feet, and end up being bled for the rest of their days.

I guess you never buy anything off the internet then either.

Wire transfers are instant. And if not that, then there are cryptocurrencies. Slightly slower, but still very usable.

And no, I do not buy stuff online very often. I pay mostly on invoice.

And if you do buy off the internet, you should use credit, as it’s much safer to freeze a credit card than your entire bank account if your card gets leaked.

Yeah so, I don't wanna use a CC online. Other means of payment are just so much better.

Also don’t get why you’re being so hostile to a comment that’s simply explaining how a different works. Must be a European thing.

Because the concept of "tips" in the US isn't a thing that "works". And just like with "union busting", we're not too found of toxic "customs" being sold as "normal", and eventually ending up creeping over. Some of the stuff is better in the US, some of the stuff is better in Europe. But for the stuff that is undeniably better in Europe, please don't try and fuck it up?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You talk very authoritatively about a subject that you just admitted you don't know how it works.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know how doing heroin works, but I still know it's terrible idea.

Besides, North America doesn't own the concept of "tipping". You own the concept of perverting it into abuse, yes, but we do have (relatively sane) tipping over here. Which I do know about. But I guess you wouldn't know that, buddy, because the world revolves around North America, eh?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

"tips are like doing heroin"

Well you seem like a reasonable person...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (4 children)

It's just a good business practice from them. You are not that clever friend. Your sarcasm and cynicism aren't real arguments, and your extremism doesn't help anyone.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Probably don't want their customers to be defrauded

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

By anyone else*

[–] [email protected] 39 points 7 months ago

imagine paying workers fairly so tips aren't needed.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago

Were you looking for a pat on the back for tipping 34% or something?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 7 months ago

If you think the staff at CapitalOne are wouldn’t tip then you’re mistaken. They employ mainly poor folk in customer service roles, and we all know us poor folk are more likely to tip.

Anyway, you take issue with them ensuring you’re not robbed?

[+] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago

Lotta people saying they're just looking out for you. Curious what the average APR is on a capital one credit card.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Butcher Block off Brighton near the old Pepsi factory?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I actually think this is a nice feature, not really sure the argument of like "well Capital One isn't a great company anyway so it's not you they're looking after"

So because they're not a good company means that they shouldn't have good features? So should I not benefit from a feature that the bank/lender gives me?

I'm much happier that they're airing on the side of caution and asking me about it then just ignoring it and having me maybe miss it or find out months down the road. Worst case scenario? I get an extra email that I can ignore.