The bold rhetorical technique of "lying"
this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
148 points (100.0% liked)
the_dunk_tank
15681 readers
225 users here now
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
Rule 3: No sectarianism.
Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome
Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)
Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.
Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.
Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this.
Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
Timeworn and proven
They can do it, and you either accept the claim - deny it and not get believed or get bogged down in investigating the claim only to get a dismissive response if you find they're talking shit.
right after the report showing India having worse inequality than during the colonial era.
Edit:
If you make $350/month in China you are in the bottom 23%.
If you make $350/month in India you are in the top 35%.
https://wid.world/income-comparator/
Another one, hunger index:
https://www.globalhungerindex.org/ranking.html
India is 111th, China is <20th (next to all the developed countries).
edit 2:
right after the report showing India having worse inequality than during the colonial era.
I predict incredibly awful people using this to engage in colonial apologia
Monarchists be like: this is why we should reinstate the rights of kings y'all!!!
We should make me the king so I can rule as an enlightened despot. My first act shall be to outlaw people taller than me.
China, famous for not reducing poverty by huge amounts
they reduced poverty so heavily that the world bank would not include them in their worldwide reports because they skewed the data so hard
something like 1 billion chinese were lifted out of poverty in a 30 year period
Didn't they include them, because otherwise, it would make global poverty look worse and defeat the 'purpose' of neoliberalism, lmao....
Likely that too, world bank gotta ape for their economic interests after all
India has accomplished something China never managed to do: unification under the emperor Wu of Jin after a decades long bloody tripartition of the country known as the Three Kingdoms era.
India's existence is nothing short of amazing
it's like if all of Africa were a country
Wait but it is
Source: my ass
So I read that bit of the blog. It’s certainly interesting (even if I don’t know how true it is).
The methodology: Modified Mixed Recall Period (MMRP) asks household consumer expenditure on perishables (for example, fruits, vegetables, eggs) for the last 7 days, durable goods for the last 365 days, and expenditure on all other items for the last 30 days.
This has shown an elimination of poverty at the PPP $1.9 line and a reduction in poverty from 53.6% to 20.8% at the PPP $3.2 line.
This is in contrast to the World Bank, which uses, the Consumer Pyramids Household Survey, a privately provided data source, to derive poverty numbers of 10% PPP at $1.90) and 45% at PPP $3.20). There are criticism of that data here.
The next part of the claim is that India achieved this while reducing inequality, which is something China, while achieving its poverty reduction targets, did not do.
The urban Gini (x100) declined from 36.7 to 31.9; the rural Gini declined from 28.7 to 27.0.
THE REASON THIS ENTIRE ANALYSIS IS AN INDICTMENT OF CAPITALISM.
One thing I’ve not mentioned so far, which even Noah had to concede at multiple points throughout. If all this is true, then how? What specifically did India do? (If you know India’s history, or a little bit about India’s policies, what follows will not shock you).
REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH AND RESOURCES.
Strong policy thrust on redistribution through a wide variety of publicly funded programs. These include a national mission for construction of toilets and attempts to ensure universal access to electricity, modern cooking fuel, and more recently, piped water
Free food (wheat and rice) supplied by the government to approximately two-thirds of the population, and utilization of public health and education…
Couple other things Noah doesn’t know but I should elaborate the government does for the people - On public health and education, the vast majority of the poor and working class literally have access of free health care and hospitals and education in India. The amount and quality is is not as good, but it’s improving. And obviously Modi is Hindutva, but we’re speaking of economics here.
Another point - Modi govt. literally straight up gives money to poor people for various purposes like building homes etc. It’s the most direct way of redistribution of wealth you can imagine.
This is contrasted with China, who “followed a more typical pattern: the economy was liberalized, the rich got much richer much faster, the poor were uplifted but more slowly than the rich, and inequality soared. We’ve gotten used to thinking that soaring inequality is the inevitable price of rapid economic development, but India is proving otherwise.”
Now, I trust I don’t need to y’all about the massive fucking irony of using India as an example of a success story in constraint to China here.
What is clear in the case of both of these countries, and so many more is that when governments take large, social actions in the public good, that go directly against the interests of the private corporations, the people benefit. And that the countries where the large companies rule DO NOT LIKE this fact, so they everything in their power to crush these people’s governments. In the case of India and China, India is far more in the pocket of the big corporations than China is. Like, this is not even a question. Yet, even there, the actions that have lifted people out of poverty, are the same as the ones that have lifted people elsewhere.
literally every one of these measures are infinitely better for China
That’s exactly my point lol. The measure which work in India are the same ones which work everywhere. But because India is a capitalist country, it gets to use these and claim to be a “democracy” and for its progress to be recognised as capitalism’s progress. While the same measures, when it results in the betterment of people in China, Vietnam, Cuba etc in even greater measures is somehow a bad thing and something to be criticised. Like, India is a case study in how neoliberal, austerity-driven capitalism literally cannot work when you have 1 billion plus people who’ve been colonized and need the government and even the billionaire-backed government in charge knows this. If they enact 100% of the capitalist agenda, there will be a revolution tomorrow. And the India state is nowhere near as capable of suppressing it as the American one.
While the same measures, when it results in the betterment of people in China, Vietnam, Cuba etc in even greater measures is somehow a bad thing and something to be criticised
This guy is a complete moron. There was never a bad take he didn’t like.
"Oh shit! This wasn't supposed to publish for 11 more days..."
thanks, noahpinion
Bruh knows literally nothing
Noah Dia what he’s talking about
Looks like the drop in poverty has gone flat since Xi took power of the see see pea! China's collapse is imminent any day now!
China has made up the bulk of gains against poverty for like the last 40 years that neoliberals like this chode point to to justify capitalism
Gini indexes of China and India compared show very similar features...
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354686685/figure/fig2/AS:1069644047724544@1632034422625/Gini-Coefficient-of-China-Brazil-and-India.png link because it won't load the image correctly I think
EDIT2: Actually used the correct link
I saw the dip and my mind went 
Gini is a measure of inequality, not a measure of how many have more than some threshold of income. It doesn't say anything about how many China has lifted out of poverty relative to India
India has accomplished something China never managed to do: introducing stateless communism and the kind of utopia that humanity could once only dream of
Hold on…I’m just getting a message in my earpiece…
Literally the only reason this dipshit can push the idea, based on correlation, not causation, that 21st century capitalism has been good on poverty is because the World Bank numbers are skewed so heavily by the USSR and specifically China.
This isn't even a bad take or being the victim of propaganda, this is just straight up reality denial.
Motherfucker, a report stating that India's wealth inequality is at an all time high and is still probably an underestimate came out four fucking days ago!
if anybody should be condemned to wear the heaviest cangue available, it's this lying piece of shit
The most obvious solution is that he simply made a mistake and switched China and India. Otherwise you would have to assume that he was barking mad.
I have no idea the episode but one of my favorite podcasting moments was during radio war nerd when Mark brought up something Noah said and immediately John started complaining about how stupid he is and then mark was like oh apparently he’s a big fan of ours and John just had to immediately pretend to feel bad lmao. Noah is an all time dumb guy.
