this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2024
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show transcriptchirasul posted:
my only advice is to BE CAREFUL posting about holiday traditions around europeans. you'll post something casual like "anyone else watch the old Grinch movie every year? what a classic" and a european will appear as if summoned and say some shit like "funny how USAmericans always CONVENIENTLY forget that Not Everyone On Earth is from The USA…….. no of COURSE we dont watch 'the grunch' or whatever the fuck that is…. our tradition is to attend a community showing of Glummdorf the Racial Stereotype"

themainspoon replies with screenshots of several tumblr tags and comments:

riseupriseupandcomealong:
my mom’s (american) class tried doing a language exchange thing w a sister school in spain and they decided to send each other boxes of gifts for christmas. the spanish class made remarks about oh christmas in the usa is so commercialized we have ~real traditions~ here and then my mom opened a box full of blackface dolls and blackface doll ornaments and blackface clothespins in front of her students

raygender:
Did once have a Dutch woman vehemently defend the Festive Christmas Blackface by repeating "it's different in Europe” with increasing desperation until she was crying. Literally all anybody else present did was just like, calmly say they were uncomfortable with the practice and not change her mind when she wailed about it.

monkey-mulch:
you bring up rudolph the red nosed reindeer and they bring out Skimbo the filthy redskin and im barely even joking about that they actually had this thing called indian plays in both soviet countries and germany

themainspoon:
European children waiting patiently on Hatemas Eve for Racism Claus to slur down the chimney and segregate all of their presents by colour.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

Americans are incapable of not looking at everything through the lens of their own cultural bias. It's not unique for them, but boy do they excel at it

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

My Christmas tradition is some fat drunk Sheppard that comes down the mountain with presents and coal to announce that Christ has been born.

Y'all are weird.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This was apparently my reminder that the nordic christmas is not european ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

never seen a blackface, is pretty commercialized and all - but not seen any hateful stuff that I recognize.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

it's commercialized but like, softly so, like the nordics in general.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Meanwhile, Brazil just embraced the capitalism hell-mas. We do like making nativity scenes (presépio)

[–] [email protected] 49 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Dutch guy here. Our racist saint Nicolas "Sinterklaas" with blackface "zwarte Piet" isn't Christmas celebration. He arrives in November and celebrates his birthday on the 5th of December by giving gifts to children.

All aspects from American Christmas celebration were stolen from European traditions. The story from Scandinavia, the character from Germany, the name from the Netherlands. But the Dutch tradition isn't Christmas. It's racist though, not arguing that. I'm fighting it though, because fuck racism. Also the racist part is only recent, back in the old days "zwarte Piet" was a white guy with black soot all over him from climbing through the chimney. Later it became a caricature black person which is so fucked up.

Sadly there's a lot of systematic racism deeply nestled in European cultures and traditions. Slowly we are working to getting rid of them, although there are also many fighting to keep them. But luckily we're making progress.

But if we're pointing fingers here, at least we're not celebrating genocide every year by slaughtering insane amounts of turkeys with Thanksgiving 👀

[–] [email protected] 34 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They weren't stolen, they're descended from. Because white Americans aren't native to the Americas and brought their traditions with them.

It was kind of a big thing, history wise?

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

OP: posts a meme about weird and racist European holiday traditions and how Europeans will appear to defend them

Europeans ITT:

well actually it’s not a Christmas tradition it’s from November

yeah uh, and it’s not actually blackface because we decided it’s soot and ash even though it was and still is blackface

ok we might have people here that like the blackface but they live all the way on the other side of the country which is like a whole 10 minutes away so it doesn’t count

uhhhh you Americans wouldn’t understand with your newer, watered-down, holiday traditions that are stolen from elsewhere

it’s not racist it’s cultural and you Americans would understand if you could introspect about your culture

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

We have been transitioning to "soot" smears rather than full-on blackface and red lipstick, which has been very welcome. Yet some people hate it vehemently, "it's a festival for the children, they don't understand the racist implications so we don't need to change it!" (the latter part isn't generally spoken out loud).

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago

fucking Thank You.

whenever i post something like this i always hope people here would be at least marginally more willing to engage with them than the average person seeing how left-leaning they tend to be and i'm always proven wrong

logically i know they're a minority, most people don't even comment, but still.
never expected to see someone say "i don't care if it's racist it's my culture so It Stays" here. like do you not hear yourself??

[–] [email protected] 82 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Minor correction: racist blackface black Pete isn't a Christmas tradition. Also, we've had a big national talk about it, and now the only people who actually do blackface are the actual racists and the rest of us hate them.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

On the Three Magi Day, we see lots of children playing them and caroling in an official charity event. Yes, Balthasar often has dark makeup to more closely match his historical depiction and it's not racist. (I have talked to the single Black person in my town and they don't mind.) We just can't ship enough real Blacks in to play the third of the Magi for this one day. And yes, the Czech song is 50% basically "- Why are you black?" "- It's the sun."

Black people are a bit of a curiosity much like in the Middle Ages, and the attitude hasn't changed much. It's only people in Prague who are indifferent (except they will default to English), people outside Prague are like "what brought you here?" "oh, interesting". The real racism is against the Romani and Muslims: most people will think "this guy is here to steal stuff / blow something up" but in Prague they will keep it to themselves.

Edit: Looks like this is unrelated to "Black Pete", we don't have that here

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

you bring up rudolph the red nosed reindeer and they bring out Skimbo the filthy redskin and im barely even joking about that they actually had this thing called indian plays in both soviet countries and germany

IDK about the soviet union, but "indian plays" are not a (common) christmas tradition in Germany. I've never even heard of those.

@OP thanks for adding the transcription.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Germany literally has a children's game called "Who's Afraid of the Black Man"

I don't wanna hear about Racism being a "uniquely American problem"

Cause it very clearly is not.

School shootings and medical debt however ARE "uniquely American problems"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

I learned pretty recently that the "black man" is actually supposed to either be the plague/death or some kind of boogeyman.

Here in Finland, it used to be "kuka pelkää mustaa miestä" which means the same thing, but was later switched to "kuka pelkää mustekalaa" (mustekala=octopus/squid) because, well, that name didn't work too well when kids started to actually see black men.

That being said, racism seems to be one of the most popular pastimes in Europe.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

That's based on the black death, aka. the plague, hence the rules of the game.

We have enough rascist shit in our culture but this one isn't :)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

I actually didnt knew that.Thanks. :)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

It's seen as an American problem because America is one of the most multicultural countries in the world. It's not surprising you don't hear about racism much in countries with 80%+ white populations

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

Looking back as an adult the origin is clearly racist. But since I sung that in kindergarden myself: We didn't associate "black man" with a person of colour. When I was 4, I was imagining some creep in a black trenchcoat.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 days ago

they actually had this thing called indian plays in both soviet countries and germany

Americans are so racist they have to fabricate nonexistent racist stuff elsewhere to feel better about their own racism. Impressive.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I hate christmas and I can't wait for it to be over. I actually quite like winter, but christmas always comes to ruin it. The whole thing is a sham, no matter what country does it. Stupid half made up traditions aside, I hate people feeling obligated to get me shit and cutting deeper into our already suffering wallets just to keep our fragile system from immediately imploding.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

we found the one guy who's actually part of the war on christmas

[–] [email protected] 2 points 22 hours ago

Ya sure did, and back into my hole I go! You'll never get me alive!

[–] [email protected] 32 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The war on Christmas isn't real but I wish it was

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Lets nuke the shit out of the shitty parts but keep the decorated live tree, pretty lights, egg nog, giving poor people and or family members things they cant normally afford and radicalizing our younger family members to be anarchistic leftists over ham or turkey or Chinese food while your older relatives try to push them as far right as possible and complain about everything that comes out of your mouth. You know the good parts of Christmas.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 23 hours ago

this is genuinely a lot of what i see christmas being here in sweden, in gothenburg they even have a special old tram that goes around before christmas collecting donated presents for poor families to give their kids. There's clearly a desire in a significant portion of the population to kick the commercialism to the wayside and just go back to focusing on things being cozy and compassionate.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

and people wonder why we Russians stick to secular New Year instead of returning to actual Christmas like an actual Christian country would

[–] [email protected] 32 points 3 days ago (16 children)

Which European country was it that added a loophole to their constitution to allow slavery as punishment then manipulated their legal system to lock a third of black men up again? I forget.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Can we not try to avoid introspection into our own racism by talking about someone else's racism please?

Yes, this is a fucked up thing. Why do you specifically bring it up under a post about European racism tho?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

On the one hand, it's bait.

On the other hand I don't think the country that has formalised slavery and a culture of policing which views it's own citizens as prey really has the right to dictate conversation on race relations.

In no other field would such failure be seen as authority. You wouldn't pick a garage to fix your car because them accidentally destroying the most engines shows they're experts.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 38 points 3 days ago (3 children)

nervously puts his Lumumba away

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

Sorry but the comment about the films is horseshit

2024 will mark about two decades of sitting through Home Alone and Die Hard, and before that it was two decades of Shitty Shitty Bang Bang (thanks autocorrect 😂) and The Wizard of Oz

Quite looking forward to the new Wallace and Gromit though!

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 days ago (4 children)

My Christmas tradition has the Krampus. He's both not racist and a terrifying monster. I'd call that a holiday tradition jackpot.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago (4 children)

I loved grinch back in the nineties.

Nirvana and all that.

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