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Crazy take: people get to choose if they have children.

Antinatalism is the first law of robotics, reduced to absurdity. It answers the question by forgetting why you asked it in the first place.

Yes, it does eliminate human suffering. However, it does so in the same way that a bullet to the head cures a headache.

you do understand that the joker is in the wrong here, right? like in this scene he's a mentally i'll man saying that killing people is funny.

if you genuinely believe that existence has an inherent negative value then i strongly suggest you seek help, and i don't mean that to be facetious. antinatalism is depression turned into a moral philosophy, it posits itself as a solution to suffering by offering an unrealizable future, but really it's an excuse to not even attempt to make the world better.

No, you're a fool if you truly believe this. Every generation has had some form of this feeling. Imagine considering having children during WW1, or WW2, or during Vietnam or Korea? Then after that we had McCarthyism and the Cold War - all seemingly hopeless days. Yet there is still so much beauty in the world, and there is so much that makes life worth living.

My son will turn 2 in a few months. It's tough being a parent, but it is entirely worth it. You cannot give into myopia - every time I hear him laugh, I am reminded that there is good in the world and it is worth fighting for. He will have his own challenges to face in life, but it is our job as a society to equip him, and all of the next generation, with the tools they need to succeed.

I'm troubled about the future, but you cannot make that stop you from striving for better days. As Marcus Aurelius said, never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

I've been re-reading the Lord of the Rings lately, and there is a lot there on this topic, but I always think back to Sam. We all should be so lucky to have a friend like that, but what he says when all hope seems to be lost is truly striking:

"It's like the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad has happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. I know now folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding on to something. That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

Tolkien wrote this after his experiences fighting in The Somme. If he could find hope and found the courage to keep striving for better days, then so should we.

I think most people simply don’t appreciate what having a child is and what a massive responsibility it is. Bringing another human being into this world is a gift, one that you should be expected to nurture and love no matter what.

The problem is that many believe that a child is simply an extension of oneself and can be manipulated and contorted into whatever the parent wants. A child is not you, a child is not a free workforce, or laborer. Too many people who do not truly understand what they are bringing into this world are parents and thats why theres so many flawed individuals.

I think most people shouldnt have children and especially right now with the way the worlds headed but to say having children is completely wrong is immensely stupid.

(in addition i myself am abstaining from having children because i dont want the responsibility and i find the lil shits annoying.)

Ah yes, it's not the billionaires, corrupt politicians and massive industry inefficiency that's causing our problems, it's children!!!

I swear to God, reading stupidity from people I expect to be on my side of the political divide hurts especially bad.

It's fine if you don't want kids for yourself, but antinatalism as an ideology is only a few steps away from ecofascism.

Antinatalism is reactionary and incorrect.

gross

But without infinite growth how can we feed the capitalistic engine with more souls?

Something that no one has discussed in this highly enlightened conversation here is the issue of consent. A person cannot consent to being born. Full stop. I don't know of a way around that besides ignoring it.

I consider myself staunchly antinatalist. Almost nobody I see in the world day-to-day should have children. Hell, working in retail I've come to understand how few people deserve life in general. And then those shitty people have shitty kids.

But I feel like I love as deeply as I hate. When I do meet actually decent people, it makes me feel very happy. It's just not often enough.

I was a mild antinatalist for a while. Personally wanted kids, but felt the world was too broken to pass to a new generation that didn't ask for it.

And then -- I know this sounds dumb, but whatever -- I played Horizon: Zero Dawn.

Parenthood in a time of armageddon is a central theme, and it's not subtle about it. Every story element is named in a way that alludes to either parenthood or annihilation. The overarching plot describes the moral challenges of...

This is why religious people outnumber us.

What a bunch of cringe edgy antinatalist nonsense. Think about the future, if you don't have kids, who are we gonna feed to the machine a few decades from now?

It's only encouraged because if people stop having children, it breaks the system, an utterly shit system which apparently can't be fixed fast enough if people stop having children so we better go full speed ahead on a the most moronically large scale sunk cost calamity that is going to hit us like a brick wall along with all the other things piling up.

It's absolutely fine if you don't want to have kids

I don't agree with the Antinatalist idea that having children is immoral. Or that Antinatalism reduces suffering.

If I'm incorrect please elaborate