this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.

Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I'm not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.

I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.

What's good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?

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[–] [email protected] 124 points 1 week ago (7 children)

First of all, stop using word "expat" when you're talking of immigrants but from "better countries"

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Ive usually seen "Expat" defined as someone working in another country, but explicitly with the intent to be there temporarily and leave once their time at that job ends, rather than moving there with an intent to stay and join that society. Which, granted, doesnt seem to be what OP is actually talking about in this case.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago

It's short for "expatriate." I'm not saying it isn't used in the way you described, but that's not the original meaning.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expatriate

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yea, I always thought an "expat" was someone who was temporarily sent to another country to work for their company there.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 week ago

Americans don't want to be grouped in with "dirty non-white immigrants" so they consider themselves expats even if they intend the move abroad permanently.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago

Thats just the expats changing the narrative when people started calling them out on it.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Hard agree, expat as a term only exists because white people wanted to separate themselves from those they deem ”lesser immigrants”

I moved to Japan from Sweden, I only call my self an immigrant because that’s what I am

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I always understood that you refer to yourself and your fellow countrymen abroad as expats. You use the word immigrant when referring to others.

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 1 week ago (15 children)

Depends how they behave. If they behave like "Expats", who don't care about integrating into our society, don't care about learning the local language even after years, they are not welcome.

If they integrate seamless (and this does not imply giving up their identity, just to make sure), and become a good member of this society, be welcome.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 week ago

Summed it up pretty well.

We love our country, and welcome you to join it. But join us - don't bring your country's problems here.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (3 children)

i barely integrate now as an american; mostly because of my neuro-divergence makes it easy for people to misread me due my intonation and body language and the number episodes of misunderstanding happened MUCH MORE frequently when i visited my potential new home country as a tourist over the last 40ish years.

i automatically qualify for citizenship for the country and i wonder what it's going to be like if i have to live there because i have both legal and cultural claim to the country; but i'm very much american plus an american that always seems arrogant and callous to everyone no matter how much he tries.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

Welcome to EU! Prepare for a cultural shift:

Considering that everyone on lemmy is 30+ communist tech worker, it's probably a welcome change

Speaking more specifically about Poland, depending on how you measure, we might have the most rapidly secularizing society in the world Some Americans (catholic fundamentalists) seem to think that you can just barge in, snatch a tradwife and plot of land and live like it's 50s, but these people are straight up delusional. Introducing ban on abortion, for example, erased full quarter of support for the party that did it (40% ish to 30% ish overnight) and caused largest protests since dissolution of Soviet Union. There are conservative women, but these tend to be 60+

In tech job market specifically, the bubble has ended (like everywhere else i guess), but if you're a senior or able to keep your current job you'll be fine (not sure how you'd get residence permit then). You'd need to lean Polish as a practical matter, because while lots of people do speak decent English, many don't (esp. 50+ and in small towns) and many official matters can be done in Polish only. Like everywhere else, there's division between more conservative rural areas and more liberal large cities; no one wants to live in the former, even locals, and so most of foreigners live in Warsaw (or Kraków, or Wrocław). It sounds like you'd blend in right away in one of these places. While property prices and rent went up since start of the plague, it's not as crushingly bad as in, say, Berlin or Rotterdam. Random benefits include ability to pirate absolutely everything without VPN with no consequences and ability to use complaint as a conversation starter

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago

I want to say on that cultural shift, having lived my entire life in the dark blue sections of the US... that would be such a freaking welcome change.

Also fucking shocked that Kansas ISN'T dark blue.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I never thought about it before, but I agree - you can start a conversion by complaining.

Living in Poland all my life, I also would like to mention it feels really safe here (as a white male, so...).

Unless you're into football, or low quality clubbing you'll be hard to find violent crime. Domestic violence and related murders do happen, but you'll be hard pressed to get yourself mugged or assaulted these days.

You can pay by card or via app (blik) nearly anywhere, small village shop, street produce vendor, food truck, anywhere. If they don't want your card they are probably doing some tax fraud, or are bad at finding low card payment fees.

TL;DR: I've travelled a bit, and I really don't think I'd rather live anywhere else.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

If you're a nurse or some other skilled professional in some specific fields... We have kind of a labor shortage with some jobs here in Germany. I live in the city, should be okay for outsiders. I guess.

I'd recommend to visit a place before considering to move. See how the people act. And you'd need to learn the language to be able to take part in regular every day life. (Edit: And for most jobs.)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ja, aber man braucht wenigstens b2 für eine Ausbildung zu machen. Das gelt auch für wenn man möchte als Pflegefachmann/frau arbeiten

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Stimmt, da habe ich wohl ein großes 'Aber' ausgelassen. Habe das mal ergänzt, Danke. Angeblich ist Deutsch ja auch nicht so ganz so leicht zu erlernen. Viele der anderen Sprachen aber wahrscheinlich ebenso wenig.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 week ago (8 children)

I'm an American living and working in Europe for years now. It's pretty great, although language barriers can leave you feeling a little isolated sometimes. That said, the thought of going back to the US turns my stomach. European working culture is much more... Human. More understanding about things like sick days, better vacation packages and, better worker protections.

I wish the US could be better, but it no longer looks like that will happen in my lifetime so I'll do my best to find happiness here instead.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (12 children)

You would do good here in The Netherlands. Lots of tech jobs, over here you actually have rights as an employee. No max amount of sick days for example, as no one plans a certain amount of days to be sick. The "FrEeDoM" Americans claim to have is so twisted and extremity far away from actual freedom. Here in NL I do feel I have true freedom. As in: not having to be scared when going out on the streets at night, no matter where I go. There are no guns. No crimes against humanity. Of course we do have issues, every country does. But they are tiny compared to most countries. Although we did vote for right wing parties sadly, we're not heading in the direction I want.

Oh and EVERYONE speaks English. From child to boomer. Officially it's not a foreign language anymore due to the high level English most speak. They are even discussing it should be a 3rd national language.

Edit: there's also a (very unfair to us natives) 30%!!! tax cut for expats to make NL more attractive. So you will make a lot of money yet pay less taxes while having loads of benifits as an employee.

Only issue right now is finding a house. Not enough houses so insane prices. A real housing crisis.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Here in Scotland / the UK you'd be absolutely fine so long as you're a decent person. There's not even a language barrier beyond dialect, and dialects vary hugely within the UK and each part of the UK anyway. Just please don't insist that your great-great-grandmother is actually from Clan MacWhatever.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Why would I want people from a less privileged country coming here and stealing our jobs, putting a burden on our healthcare system and making housing even more expensive?

Congratulations America, you're now the english language Mexico... with worse Tacos.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago

Hey not cool don't diss Mexico like that

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago

I am originally from the US but moved to AU and am now a citizen. I got lucky and got out just before Trump's first presidency.

Life here is good. Like, better than most Americans can really understand. Healthcare is free, education is good and includes topics like critical thinking and understanding how to spot "fake news".

There is only a small aisle of frozen food in the grocery store, not nearly as much pre-packaged food. There are affordable fresh fruits and vegetables, and outside most grocery stores is an independent baker, butcher, fishmonger, and fruit and veg stand.

Minimum wage is $24.10 an hour, and you cannot be fired for no reason if you are a full time employee.

If you compare things (and adjust for AUD to USD) like rent, gas, milk, bread, eggs... Things cost about the same here as in the US.

We pay around the same amount in taxes, and get so much more.

Things aren't completely rosy, distressingly, Australia seems to want to emulate the US in certain ways which worries me.

There is also currently a bit of an economic downturn and while it's nothing like what I left behind, it does mean things cost more and luxuries have to be budgeted for.

I think anyone who isn't a dick would be welcome here. There are racist cunts here like everywhere, but generally Aussies are the kindest and most welcoming people.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Mexican here. Generally, most of the population won't be very welcoming. Talking specifically about mexico city. You see, the amount of money you make in tech in the US will allow you to stay at the very best places in the city, which pushes native people out of those districts and makes them angry in the process. However, those districts are already popular for tourists/rich immigrants and that's probably for a reason. I guess business there benefit from this wealth availability so they will treat you well. I'm not rich so idk. Also, it's probably not hard to emigrate here bureaucracy wise.

Speaking Spanish, you will likely do very well in mexico. Good food, good nightlife, good safety and infrastructure (assuming you stay in the good zones), etc.

Personally, having traveled to other countries (talking about US and places in Europe specifically), I love the diversity of nationalities you can find. I think different backgrounds and experiences is very important to drive innovation. I'd love to see more of that in my home country so I'm for more people emigrating to mexico. Feel free to ask questions if you are curious.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Lots of Americans here in London, UK. They've generally been transferred by their company though. I expect it's v hard to get in when applying for a new job.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

In my country you'd be locked up at a random moment of your stay. Tortured in prison, used as a trading chip in a complex web of international intrigue and diplomacy. Accused of terrorism. Paraded for political manipulation of the masses. Then unceremoniously put in a plane to Canada so US authorities can go pick you up. But it would be very nice and welcoming up to that point.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago
[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 week ago

man, france really changed its tone

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Canadian Here. prior to the election? we'd be welcoming. now? there seems to be a general sense of "we don't what that idiocy here" the right-wing cons of Canada would likely embrace Americans but the general consensus with my friends and family is that Americans are now considered morons (left and right leaning).

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

But wouldn't you want the ones who would uproot their lives because Trump was elected? It's the ones who voted for him that you wouldn't want. If anything, Canada could use all the non-maga you can get.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The Netherlands is generally quite friendly towards (English speaking) immigrants and expats. Almost everyone speaks English and no one really bats an eye at a non-Dutch resident in most of the major western cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, etc.)
Housing is terrible though, prices are high and it'll be hard to find something nice. One advantage for you (or any US resident), is that you're exempt from the inburgering exam. Which means that you won't have to learn the language and won't be tested on your integration in Dutch society.

My partner is from abroad and they've experienced living here as quite pleasant. They weren't exempt from the exam though (different non-EU nationality), which was a bit of a nuisance. But in general, reception was positive. They've been living here for over 16 years now.
But like most of Europe, we've got a far-right government right now, so there's a lot of anti-immigration talk going round. Of course it's only aimed at what they think are the "wrong" (Middle-Eastern and African) kind of people, so I doubt Americans would ever have to deal with it.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Im from Romania and if i saw someone move here from a richer country, i would be confused

People in Romania are homophobic, racist, xenophobic. A significant percentage of romanians decided to work in another country in the EU, giving money to their family who are living in the country(or just leaving with everyone to another country)

At least over 50% of people pirate software here, including people working for the gouverment, so you dont have to use a VPN

Its also technically illegal to be homophobic, but no one has ever been punished for that

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Brazil is a Bad Idea®.

  • There's a reasonable chance that a Trump-like clown wins in 2026. Probably a Bolsonaro ally, or even a relative (there have been talks about his wife running for presidency).
  • Repeat with me the Latin American mantra: Nothing Fucking Works®.
  • Ask Haitians and Venezuelans how they're treated.
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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago

Heidelberg, Germany. This town is already more American than some towns in America.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago

Weird way to talk about immigrants

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Ireland is full of tech jobs that pay well and that's the only way to live well here right now since basics are so expensive. Housing is a big issue, but that's not just our problem. Come on over, you'd be welcomed.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago

I'm roughly between b2 and c1 in German after living here for 2 years. I met another American who has lived here for 12 years and spoke lower than a1 german. I could only speak to him in English. Don't be like that guy.

I'd say currently in Germany it's all depending on which state you pick. Bayern z.B. is the most international place I've ever lived. The people here (speaking from my view point) are very loving and caring. I feel my day with small talk and jokes and have no problem making friends, which is the opposite of what I read from others on the internet.

So I guess it all depends on where you live, how hard you work to integrate yourself, and most importantly is TRY to learn the language for gods sake.

Either way best of luck to you and enjoy your journey!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Given that my country is Russia and you are probably trying to escape an authoritarian regime, you may consider another destination.

But still, I think Americans are generally welcome. People can make lighthearted jokes about it and be surprised, but you'll be a welcome guest after all. Bonus points if you say American government, and particularly Department of State, is shit :D

Language barrier might be an issue - most Russians above ~35 have very poor English skills, and younger folks mostly have it on A2-B2 level.

Oh, and the country is sanctioned to hell, so sending money in and out is an additional hurdle. But if you retain your American credit card, you'll be alright and at least able to make payments outside the country.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don't know why anyone (who doesn't have ancestry there) would want to move to Pakistan. Sure, it's not completely undeveloped (otherwise I wouldn't be sending this message lol), but it still has a VEEERRRRRYY long way to go compared to other industrialised countries.

  • Electricity has become more reliable over the years, but you still have to deal with increasing bills, so that the government can pay off its IMF loans
  • Piped gas still isn't 24/7, it's off from 10 pm to 6 am
  • Tap water still isn't drinkable
  • Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad disproportionately receive the lion's share of development while smaller cities are neglected
  • Even Karachi can be said to not be as developed as Lahore or Islamabad. When I visited it, I found that it was greatly overpopulated and many apartment buildings were extremely worn-down. Chipping paint for instance. My father says that since Lahore and Islamabad are a comfortable driving distance away from each other, the population is more evenly distributed between the two cities. Hyderabad's near Karachi, but remember, it's not a big three city ...
  • Even the development in Lahore and Islamabad is not optimal. Mostly relying on private housing projects, not making an effort to make them integrate with the rest of the city
  • Suboptimal public transport. In Lahore there is a public bus and metro system, but both don't cover too much of the city. For intercity buses, people rely on private companies such as Daewoo Express. And again, the reliance on private housing projects hinders true city-wide planning
  • Professionals (doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.) receive very low salaries compared to what they could earn abroad. The devaluation of the rupee is related to it, but only partially. That's why millions of us have moved abroad to literally every other country, and thus why remittances are a big portion of this country's income
  • Lahore is literally the smoggiest city in the world right now. Did I mention it's one of the three most developed?
  • Too much non-air pollution as well. There is a culture of littering, partially because people aren't punished for it and thus have adopted a care-free attitude, and partially because there aren't enough outdoor wastebins

I haven't even gotten into the sociopolitical aspects ... I'd be writing a whole book at that point

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