this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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Science Memes

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They're everywhere!!! (mander.xyz)
submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 83 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

His name was Ignaz Semmelweis, and they threw him in a mental institution. He was trying to get doctors to wash their hands in between handling corpses and doing surgery, and they got super offended about it.

Edit: I AM LYING! Partly. Semmelweis discovered illnesses caused by bacteria, but he didn't understand that they were caused by microbes, or the mechanism at work. He just was able to piece enough of it together to test empirically that if the doctors washed their hands, then people didn't get sick in the same way that they did if the hands had corpse-goo on them. Linking him to specifically understanding that tiny little creatures were everywhere was a little bit misleading thing for me to do.

Also, they were usually delivering babies, not doing "surgery" in the modern sense of opening people up and poking around in them.

The rest of what I said is true.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"A gentleman's hands could never be dirty!"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

He made them scrub with bleach water until he couldn't smell corpse smell anymore.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Wait. For real? They had so much bacteria on their hands that they smelled of the dead, and they were going right into surgery with live humans? Damn, surgery must have been a death sentence back then.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Not just surgery, but they were also working in labor and delivery, so they were getting all that on mothers and their newborn babies.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

They were practicing surgery on cadavers between deliveries. Gotta keep your skills up during your stint in maternity

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (2 children)

yeah, the idea didn't take off until the previous generation of doctors died. it's a fact that often both encourages and discourages me.

even doctors were too stubborn to accept they may have been wrong about something so important, no matter the evidence. however, even those that are so stubborn that they'll take it to the grave will eventually be passed up by a new generation who has known of this idea since before they were born. at worst, this kind of stubbornnes is only likely to stall progress for 2 generations.

still, millions of people died because humans are stubborn.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

That is the TL;DR of Thomas Kuhn's "Structure of Scientific Revolutions." It is almost universal that when a new way of looking at the world comes along, very few people are persuaded to adopt it on an individual level. The consensus view generally stays the same until enough scientists who grew up with the old model die, that the ones remaining are outnumbered by new scientists who grew up with the new model.

It is bleakly comic, and there is surely some sort of productive lesson there, but I don't know what it is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

I’m hopeful this will be how we solve racism and intolerance… hopefully as enough people are brought up the right way, we will eventually move past the hatred in the world today.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Antonie van Leeuwenhoek was the first person to observe microbes. Semmelweis deserves immense credit for trying to convince people to wash their hands, but he didn't observe microbes and believed in corpse particles. (⌐■_■)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah. I was telling a fib for comedic effect. Semmelweis is actually a lot more impressive, to me, because he was able to deduce that something important was going on and what the solution was, without having any idea what the mechanism might be, simply from observing and following the data. He didn't need to know the details to know it was a problem; he just trusted the evidence without needing to have a narrative built up in his head to attach it to.

Also, once he realized it was killing people, he wouldn't shut up about it until they literally had to kill him to make him stop. That puts him over the line from good scientist to hero, to me.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Not arguing with that, but clearly people seem to believe you and think he discovered microbes, which he didn't. The truth is more impressive anyways, no?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I edited it to add a correction. I shouldn't fib for the sake of making a more entertaining link to the posting, maybe.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Cheers, comrade.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Maybe strikethrough the first part where you credit semmelweis with the discovery. And no, a convenient lie is never better than a complicated truth. It may seem harmless to you but you've just created misinformation and disseminated it to the public.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Semmelweiss. His radical idea of "surgeons ought to wash their hands" saw him widely ridiculed and reduced to poverty, and he died in an institution.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Semmelweis discovered that a particular type of infection was much less likely to occur when doctors washed their hands with chlorinated lime water between doing an autopsy and examining a patient. However he did not know why or how this worked, and did not discover microorganisms (which were already observed by Antoni Van Leeuwenhoek some ~180 years earlier).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Wasn’t he also kinda of a dick to people

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If I knew something that everyone could do to dramatically reduce the risk of life threatening infections, and nobody listened to me, I’d be kind of a dick too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

I think it was the other way around nobody listened to him because he was a dick

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Semmelweis didn't discover microbes. Antonie van Leeuwenhoek first observed microbes in feces using the first microscope (the Leeuvenhoek microscope), which he also invented.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago

What I love is that when Van Leeuwenhoek first saw microorganisms in his microscope he named them “animalcules”, as in animal + molecule. Isn’t that freakin cute?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

And if you believe that, then you'll believe anything... that is supported by hard evidence and deducted from those by sound logical principles.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"Pfffff. Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts schmacts."

--Homer Simpson

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

In the Discworld books witches are much like local doctors. There's a young witch that can't convince a family to move the privy away from the garden, which is making them sick. She tries to explain there are tiny, tiny animals that are coming from the poop and that's what's making them ill. They smile politely and don't change anything.

The old witch comes along and it explains that the problem is the goblins in the outhouse and to move it far away from the garden. They happily do so.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

This episode of This Podcast Will Kill You actually goes into that: https://player.fm/series/series-2359894/ep-31-giardia-gerardia

There is also a transcript if you just want to read about it: https://thispodcastwillkillyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/TPWKY-Episode-31-Giardia.pdf

(Warning: they make an alcoholic beverage towards the beginning of each episode in case anyone is in recovery)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Shout out to Louis Pasteur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Wierd part is you can actually see it with a microscope. Anime Parallel world pharmacy made more sense then real life.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Wee beasties!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Hello, Maleficent!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

There's a part of Old Yeller dedicated to this. His uncle doesn't believe in germs because germs aren't in the Bible.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Horton Hears a Who if Horton was the one saying "Boil that dust speck! Boil that dust speck!"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Reminds me of this work by Latour. It goes into the tremendous amount of oftentimes political labor that goes into the establishment of new scientific knowledge as paradigmatic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pasteurization_of_France