this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 71 points 5 months ago (4 children)

We need something a little more flexible than rail, a little more rigid than current roads. That said, we need rail more than anything because.

  1. We know it works and how it works.
  2. Is a solution we can do tomorrow if we actually wanted to.
  3. Was a solution till modern cars decided to throw all that out the window.

Self-driving cars on a semi-rigid road system is either going to be the solution that is in the middle for everyone, or something we just completely abandon and we try our best to make modern rail happen.

I'm a big supporter of more rail, but I'm not completely against car-train hybrids. I just would like something better than what we're currently dealing with.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I’m not completely against car-train hybrids

Do you mean like people-movers, trams, or bus-rapid-transit?

[–] [email protected] 36 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What are all these amazing technologies Musky hasn't invented yet?!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Yeah I can’t wait for him to invent the train.

Didn’t he somehow get involved in the high speed train that’s supposed to connect Los Angeles to San Francisco? (That they’ve been talking about for 30+ years.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Yeah that’s them. I know there’s likely a better then more specific than mass transit and less specific than say GLR, trams, etc…

[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Bikes on trains should do it. The train gets you within a few miles, the last part can be done with your bike. All the efficiency of a train for long distance, all the flexibility for short distance.

With pedal assisted cargo bikes people can even haul a surprising amount of stuff. People here are already using those pedal assist bucket bikes for getting toddlers to school.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Imagine you can rent bike at train station and put them back at the train station. In Luxembourg we can rent bike for 19€ a year.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

And as long as everything you need fits in a backpack that works great. And most people still but a car for the cases where it doesn't work, and if you have a car anyway, why not use it more.

But those bikes in docks and the scooters do work great.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Rent the car too.. here we have rental car by hour.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

You can store most bicycles on trains, where I'm from people have fold-up bicycles that will fit under a seat even just for last-mile transport. Cargo bikes won't fit on a train though, they'll block aisles and standing room. I doubt hauling a whole-ass train car just for bicycles is cost effective.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

It's cost effective when you take the same amount of cars off the road and factor in what those cars would have contributed to

  • road maintenance
  • road congestion (mental health)
  • environment
[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

That seems a classic chicken-and-egg issue. There is no room for cargo bikes because it's not cost effective. That means people can't easily take their children and stuff anywhere except with a car. Because everybody uses the car, the train cars are not cost effective.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

They are very common where I live. They are designed so that people can sit there if no bike is using the space. And usually they are bikes. Still not enough space for a cargo bike, but more than enough for a normal one.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

There is this kind of bike rack in most regional trains in France.

They are generally not really usable at rush hour unfortunately but the rest of the time traveling with a bike on the train is quite pleasant.

bike rack in a train

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

I grew up in a small rural village separated by a small stream. To get across, we'd employ all manner of clever tricks - jumping across with a tire swing, old mattresses, dead animals, you name it.

I guess what I'm saying is: how about using a large catapult as a flexible alternative, with the option to launch adead animals at any naysayers?

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 5 months ago

Trains are crabs of transport.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago (8 children)

The YouTube Adam Something had similar comments. For example, the Hyperloop from Musk would be more efficient if you'd use pods on rails instead of Tesla's, and make the pods longer like a train. It's called a subway. Or other pod like ideas. What if you make them longer which would be more energy efficient, with one driving engine and carts behind it which you can fill with people or goods. It's called a fucking train. Years and years of development into what we have now, then to have a stupid narcissistic scam artist wanting to reinvent something which works perfectly into some futuristic looking concept which would make a perfectly fine system broken and less efficient. "Please give me money, oh people on Kickstarter, as for I think I know better then years of evolution, research and development. Don't do the math, trust me, I have a flashy computer animation to prove how cool my idea is. I did not finish school, my dad gave me a lot of money because he says I'm special." Floating mega cities, pods, self driving cars, terraforming Mars, vacuum washing machines, vacuum tunnel systems, solar panel roads, etc etc etc. Next to Adam Something I can recommend ThunderF00t on YouTube. A scientist joking about Musk his stupidity and other tech kickstarter scammers, breaking their scams with science.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Ill be honest, when I first heard about the hyper loop, I thought the idea was to make trains cool again and kickstart national interest in public transit. In retrospect I was kind of an idiot.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

You weren't an idiot. Musk was really good at marketing back then, and hadn't yet revealed his true self to the world.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The US is an idiot for not investing more in trains. The country literally was built with trains. People just stopped caring because air travel became popular and cheap. Just go invest in high speed trains, repair the tracks already out there, expand. Hoping someone would make trains sexy again isn't stupid. Elon Musk is though. Falling for his scams is stupid too, but I've been there as well in the beginning. I was just not aware people could lie that much and get away with it. The to continue with even bigger scams. Guess I'm stupid too.

Most billionaires just want more money. They know how to sell something, so they try to get as much investors as possible for any stupid idea which they think they are able to sell. Same with kickstarter scammers. They become rich by doing the same trick. White collar scam artists.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Pretty sure freight is popular though.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Everything becomes either a train or a commie block if you iterate enough on the idea.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are trains the crabs of the transportation world?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

There once was a pipe dream of a dual mode car/monorail vehicle. RUF utube video seemed promising, since cars & busses could dock together for longer stretches on rail.
I believe the furthest it went, was a test track loop and a couple prototype vehicles.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Ah, a transport system with fixed entry/exit points after which the rest is manual transportation. We have a similar system in The Netherlands. It's called trains and bicycles. You bring your bike onto the train or you take a public transportation bike at the railway station. Or a public transportation electric car at the railway station. Or a bus, subway, tram. You can even bring your bike with those. And no parking costs or searching for a parking spot. Just park your bike right outside your destination. Or right in front of your home, even if you live in an apartment in the city center. It's revolutionary. Check This guy's channel for more on Dutch infrastructure. We're number 1 in the world for best roads.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago (1 children)

they're making an extra lane from Allentown to Philadelphia on the 476 highway when it would've been better to make a railroad.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Traffic will get better, then much worse. If you are unfamiliar it's a concept call induced demand.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Raise your hand, if you want to transform all roads into a bumpercar arena. 🙋 Imagine how fun commuting would be.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm just imagining having a shitty morning, commuting to work, and some little 12 year old twerp keeps smashing into me from behind at full speed...ugh.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

I would fuckin love shoving people going 5 mph under the speed limit out of the fast lane. There are many times that I've wished I had a Romulan disruptor mounted to the front of my car so I could disintegrate the car in front of me and go about my merry way.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I was talking about this recently with a coworker but I remember a modern marvels episode on the History Channel many many years ago that was talking about California experiments with highways for self driving cars. S

o they were embedding magnets into the ground and the cars had sensors to follow those and them they would pack drive like 10 cars nose to tail. This is what I've always expected from self driving cars. It wild were going to direction we are with them but getting any local/state/federal government to pay to add shit to roads is probably a long shot.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

I'd MUCH rather my tax dollars go to public transport for the masses, as opposed to embedding magnets in roads to help wealthy self-driving car owners

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Balaji provides a great example of how not to think about developing systems that use AI. If you can build a system that is human-like in perception and cognition, then you don’t need anything more than what a human uses to navigate driving. His statement is like saying “I solved this problem because I didn’t actually attempt it”.

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