the_dunk_tank

Dem hardliners have decided the ends (their fake democracy) justify the means (literally genocide). This is not the answer to "What would you have done during the Holocaust" that I wanted. Like what the entire fuck

"I shouldn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils, I should get to vote for a candidate that 100% aligns with my desires"

sweet mother of shit no one has ever said, can you actually address a real point anyone has made or are you only capable of debating strawmen. I've can't even fathom agreeing on 85% of things with someone who would run under a third ML party that's going to get 450 votes, let alone 100%. I'm willing to vote for someone who agrees with like, 40% of what I actually believe. Biden, on a good day? Represents maybe 2% of what I believe and actively opposes about 95% of what I believe. Man can't even be bothered to not send bombs to Israel that he knows damn well are going to be dropped on hospitals. I live in a state with universal mail in ballots. I get my ballot mailed to my doorstep. I don't need to put on pants to vote, and I'm not going to waste my time acting like somehow things would be totally different under either Red Trump or Blue Trump

Funny how they frame it as Biden doesn't align 100% with your desires instead of there's literally zero places your interests align with his.

Notice how the framing on Palestine switched from “Trump will do the bad thing” to “Trump isn’t going to be better than Biden.” Even there they have to admit that Biden and Trump are 100% Hitler.

I think this goes back to the white, affluent liberal worldview that they speak for the poor, unfortunate souls that can’t speak for themselves. So to disregard their political interests is, in their minds, to disregard those without privilege.

there isn't even an electoralist logic to supporting biden now. the administration is sacrificing a major piece of the coalition that forms the DNC's support bloc. trying to bully those people [and anyone who understands political projects] back into line is twisting the knife in an already critical wound. even party reformers should be vocally withholding support for biden. the lesson would be for leadership to understand that there is no segment of the coalition that can be sacrificed without losing the election. that they have found the floor of "giving a fuck" and they can't go any lower.

of course, i think the notion that the democrats do not mind being out of power, as they are primarily a perennial fundraising and campaigning/consulting/advertising organization and major client for highly concentrated media conglomerates, is a tough pill many americans are unwilling to swallow.

100% aligns with my desires

A politician in line with 100% of all my desires? That would be ideal but impractical, so maybe not, but I'm100% opposed to genocide, and I refuse to vote for someone who is even only 99% opposed to genocide. I don't think being 100% opposed to genocide is too high of standard, right? If it is, the Democratic Party needs extreme reevaluation more now than ever.

as a trans lesbian, I am terrified of another Trump presidency.

that said, I am sick and tired of people like me being used as mere rhetorical pawns by liberals. if democrats cared about trans and queer people locally, if they cared about people of color locally, if they cared about women locally, you know what they would have fucking done? run a viable candidate. stopped supporting Israel's genocide of Palestinians. codified bodily autonomy and freedom of sexuality and gender identity into law. and they have done exactly zero of those things.

I'm tired of pretending democrats are the lesser of two evils. they're not less evil. they're just marginally less forthcoming about their evil, which is honestly worse in a lot of ways. at least Trump says he wants trans people eradicated, meanwhile Biden will make some mushy statement about the Trans Day of Visibility while doing jack shit to protect the rights of trans people in, what, half the country now? over half?

One of those comments that's so stupid that they should legally be required to choke themselves while writing it. Not in a fun way, but like the boot camp scene from Full Metal Jacket.

What value is my vote supposed to have if a candidate can get it regardless of what they do?

im literally trans and ive been hatecrimed before.

average liberal: woaw so privileged

He literally was a go-between for northern Democrats and Dixiecrats.

I’m trying to think of things Dems have done at the federal level for anything listed there and all I can think of ranges from “actively against me” to “doing nothing at all”

What I love is that with each passing year, Biden has justified my decision not to vote for him. If you wanted my vote back you would have earned it. I was done with the Democratic party after the fuckery that they allowed and rewarded in Iowa. Illegitimate party, illegitimate candidate. If he wanted my vote then he'd better do something I actually like.

I saw this exact comment and almost engaged.

I was so irrationally angry that I knew I would have no semblance of poise.

Biden is going to lose. We're (you're) going to be stuck with the orange.

I should get to vote for a candidate that 100% aligns with my desires.

I'm not American, but if I was I'd hope to get a candidate that aligns with at least some of my desires. So far Biden has done nothing to further leftist causes, nor has he protected people from the right-wings draconian policies. Not to mentioned he has funded genocide, war and imperialism. The dude might as well be a Republican.

Real good look for your so called democracy when you're expected to vote for a candidate you don't want.

Everyone in Trump's orbit is dumb as shit and incompetent. There's a very valid argument for Trump potentially being the lesser evil in some ways.

Liberal voting strategy comes down to "vote for us or we will let fascists kill you"

How is lesser-evilism working out for you so far?

The only way to achieve left wing objectives is for both parties to move right at all times and under all circumstances

Yeah it’s really glaring at this point how absolutely hollow and depraved the arguments sound no matter how you present them

Step 1: Vote for the lesser evil so things only get moderately more shitty every day instead of way more shitty every day

Step 1.5: Shut down any alternative to voting for the great shitstain or the greater shitstain. It's one or the other, bucko.

Step 2: Keep voting for the lesser evil for the rest of your life

Step 2.5: Shut down any consideration that a country that forces you to vote for either a great shitstain or a greater shitstain requires fundamental change that cannot and will not come from a ballot box. Shut down any thought that voting for either the great shitstain or the greater shitstain will further cement both their powers so the pipe dream of "change via ballot box" slips further and further away every passing moment.

Step 3: Hope things will get better

Step 3.5: Distract yourself with treats and/or being smug and condescending to those who have not/will not follow steps 1 through to 3 for being privileged

Step 4: Things don't get better, cope because things could have been worse if you didn't valiantly defend the great shitstain to the bitter end.

Step 5: Die miserably under fascism lite, content you didn't die even more miserably under full strength fascism. Don't spend a single moment considering how things might be different.

Ah, the American dream.

Do they not realize that they're the ones taking risks? There's a growing progressive base and you're alienating them even if it risks costing you an election.

Libs love to pretend that if you just vote blue enough that the valiant democrats will do another New Deal, or realize the Great Society, or build an American Nordic model, or do anything good.

Even from a left lib position, even if you for some reason believe that Biden actually cares about LGBT people, or trade unions, or making a robust and safe immigration system, or reproductive rights, etc. what has Biden actually done to make the case for himself as the lesser of two evils? As far as I know basically the only accomplishments of the Biden admin are the infrastructure package and taking credit for the economy.

I guess a left lib would probably agree with those, but obviously money for infrastructure in this country is more like a government handout for deeply corrupt construction companies. And I would personally advise libs to stop trying to take credit for Biden fixing the economy. Just because the line goes up doesn't mean the economy is good. Or if it does then whether the economy is good or not doesn't matter to the lives of normal working people because the cost of everything is absolutely fucked. And sure, maybe Biden can't wave his presidential hand and fix that, but he shouldn't take credit for it.

They love to tell on themselves with the "somebody who doesn't 100% allign with my values"

I have literally never once heard somebody say "I agree with them on the fundamental issues but won't be voting for them because of this one issue"

We're not mad you're trying tonget us for somebody we agree with on 90% of stuff but he just has a blind spot on genocide, you're trying to get us to vote for somebody we agree with on 1% of things and actively tells us won't do anything to increase that percent.

I will say this once again since many people do not understand the argument I have been trying to make:

The American electoral system is NOT democratic. You are not voting because you agree with someone’s political platform. You are voting to NOT get punished by the system. It is a hostage situation. You don’t have a choice.

The system is designed to punish those who think they can subvert the electoral system by choosing not to vote. If you don’t vote for Biden, then it’s going to give you something worse, and you will have to endure the suffering until you learn to toe the line.

Meanwhile, smug liberals who will not be materially affected by Trump’s policies will be on your face saying “See, this is what you get by not voting for Biden. Enjoy suffering under Trump!”

It’s incredible that most people here still don’t realize that they are the hostages in this situation. It really demonstrates how powerful the American propaganda is, even for leftists who think they are too aware to fall for propaganda.