Haiti made the wrong choice of demanding freedom from slavery before European powers were ready to adapt to life without human chattel. We've never let them forget that.
this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024
200 points (97.6% liked)
News
23267 readers
4527 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Fuck the European powers of old and fuck slavery. I wish that all my ancestors killed their masters tbh.
How can you say it's the wrong choice for anyone to try to defeat an oppressive evil such as slavery?
Well, Haiti did kill most of their masters when they rebelled against them. (Which I honestly can understand given the especially awful brand of slavery that was going on there)
Also, while France is to blame for the insane "reparations" that have been forced upon Haiti, they ultimately sold their debt to some wall street banks, who pressured the US government to invade Haiti (on more than one occasion iirc) to force them to take loans with high interest rates in order to repay the debt (and create more).
When I learned about that I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that forgiving the debt was apparently never an option for anyone involved. So, fuck the banks and also fuck the USA.
How can you say it's the wrong choice for anyone to try to defeat an oppressive evil such as slavery?
It was a wrong choice from the perspective of their masters.
load more comments
(3 replies)
Also known as the Mexican gambit. Who gave the CIA access to pentagon's stock pile anyway?
Yeah if they're getting machine guns its not from civilians. Civs can't have any manufactured post 1984 and because of that stipulation they go for 20k at least.
They are getting smuggled. Full-auto guns are only difficult to do legally in the US. Pretty sure smugglers don't care about the law.
Where do the smugglers obtain machine guns? Because something tells me they're not smuggling individual guns worth 20k to Haiti. The only people with access to newer machine guns would be the government weather its military or clandestine agencies. So your smugglers are government connected.
Depends, are we talking full auto AR "machine guns" or actual machine guns like the FN Minimi or bigger?
Because full auto conversions for semi-auto rifles are easy to do. Actual machine guns are harder to come by, but still obtainable if you can get the right FFL and SOT license and either make your own or order them from manufacturers for "resale".
Depends on scale for me. Like if there are a high number of automatic ARs going to Haiti I'd start wondering who has the capacity to alter that many guns quickly and traffic them. If its like one or two rifles a reporter heard firing very rapidly then who knows how it got there or when it was modified.
Any competent person with a little mechanical ability can do a conversion: https://www.recoilweb.com/turning-your-ar-15-into-an-m-16-150631.html
Given the size of the US, I'm sure you could find a couple guys to do it. Or even in Haiti, if you got the parts. And the parts aren't hard to come by, the whole rifle is harder.
load more comments
(1 replies)
or actual machine guns like the FN Minimi or bigger?
The UN Report lists all of the above PLUS "Belt Fed Machine Guns". Where da fuk are those coming from?
Armies are very good at getting their stuff stolen.
Haiti doesn't have an Army and it's not possible to steal THAT much inventory from the US Military without getting caught. It is possible for something to "fall off the back of the truck" occasionally but that kind of opportunity is extremely limited.
Those AK47s are the same way, they can't be purchased here...at least not in Full Auto form and the weapon that guy in the first picture is holding ALSO isn't available for over the counter purchase in the United States. They may be "coming" from the US in that they are being shipped from Florida to Haiti but the United States itself almost certainly isn't the original source.
Haiti doesn't have an army now. They had several military branches, and paramilitary groups too, up until 1995. Those groups were definitely armed. Where do you think the guns went when they were disbanded?
I don't know where "here" is for you, but you can definitely buy AKs like that in most parts of the US.
Edit: actually I'm not sure what that rifle even is. It looks like an AK, but has an AR stock and it doesn't look like an AK magazine... But the ejection port is only big enough for pistol rounds like 9mm. Given that, and the variety of guns in the other picture, I think they're just getting whatever they can, wherever and whenever they can, so we're not talking crates full of ARs coming over from the US very recently.
Well, it piqued my curiosity and now I think I have figured it out, which makes this far more interesting. The Galil Ace civilian version was an extremely limited run with less than 1100 total rifles being made, all for the US market and all chambered in 5.45x39. The rifle in the title picture of this article complaining about the flood of US guns depicts a gun that was never sold to any US civilian nor used by any US government agency (there is a slight chance of a handful of highly restricted and tracked "dealer samples" existing). If you look at the list of users for the 5.56 version of the Galil Ace you will notice that it is used by several Central and South American governments/police forces as well as... Haitian police forces.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Well there's stolen and “stolen” if it's actually the CIA sending it over.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
But I keep being told that an armed society is a polite society!
Mutually assured destruction only works when none of the parties involved are batshit insane
I can't think of a real-world example of that.
Hell I'd argue mutually assured destruction drives people batshit insane.
I do not disagree at all.
Still, seems like an improvement on the path humanity was on of having periodic global bloodbaths over individual human egos and the nationalism others attach to it. We still have bloodbaths over those issues, don't get me wrong, just smaller scale overall.
load more comments
(2 replies)
And nobody please mention Switzerland as an example. Yes, we have lots of guns but they aren't meant for self-defense outside some very narrow exceptions. Thankfully we can trust our police to do their work and they are usually very well trained.
Too late.
https://lemmy.world/comment/8873503
Unsurprisingly, he also talked about "gun grabbers" in Switzerland.
Considering only the gangs have guns here...not really an armed society is it?
which export location is actually exporting AK47s?
The same one exporting Belt Fed Machine Guns. Half of the stuff covered in the article can't be bought in the United States so I'd really REALLY like to know where in the hell its coming from.
Starts with a R and rhymes with Ussia.
That's certainly possible but I'd bet that the regular ol' Arms Dealers, think Lord of War, are the ones behind it.
To be fair 9mm Pistols and AR pattern rifles could absolutely be sourced in the US and shipped to Haiti so I'm perfectly willing to believe that part of it, but this other stuff? No way.
load more comments
(5 replies)
Heh, good catch.
There actually was a Kalashnikov factory in the US producing Real Authentic Kalashnikov AK-47s. Was one of the very early victims of sanctions over Ukraine.
googles
Looks like they still exist. I think that it was partly owned by someone who was sanctioned, so maybe they divested.
looks further
Kalashnikov Firearms
Russian Heritage. American Innovation.
Man, this was not a good decade for that particular ad campaign.
I don't see AK-47s on the site, so maybe they only do other firearms.
googles
Ah, apparently the synthetic-stock thing, the KR-103, counts and was probably what they were selling.
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/kalashnikov-usa-kr-103-review/
It looks like they got whacked back after the invasion of Crimea, so some time back.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jl2572
According to the above Pew Pew Tactical article, it looks like those Crimea-invasion sanctions were what started the US-based factory -- they set up domestic production in the US to provide their US sales, since they couldn't import from Russia any more.
The American company, Kalashnikov USA, was initially an importer of Russian-made firearms until the US government banned importation.
Using their familiarity and know-how, the importers became manufacturers, creating their own firearms based on Russian specifications.
I guess that strictly-speaking, the term should still be "AK-pattern", Kalashnikov or not. Says that it's based on the AK-103, which is really a descendant of the AK-47.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Hint: all the guns here are from anywhere that makes guns. This is sadly not special treatment for Haiti. The US is the source for all the guns including the Russian made ones. It isn't personal. It's just business. And a business doesn't care whom they maim and kill in their lust for cash unless forced by Law to care.
"All the guns here are from the US, everybody knows it. If the US wants to stop this, they could easily do it one month!"
Man, I'd believe that there's arms smuggling from the US, but we can't fully stop drug smuggling through the Carribbean, and we've used aerostat radars, helicopter-borne snipers, satellite surveillance, and you name it, have a ton of resources allocated to it, have been banging on that for decades. Why do you think arms smuggling is more amenable?
AK-47s coming from the US??? Yeah I'm just going to have to stop you right there, that is complete nonsense.
I mean, maybe not actual AK47s but there are a fuckton of AK pattern rifles chambered in various NATO calibers. Aren't those decently easy to find in the US ?
And they don't need to be made in the US to be smuggled from the US. I bet they are Chinese-made clones.
There are AK clones available here, but they aren't "AK47"s, and they aren't full-auto, and they aren't a military surplus item here. Perhaps this is just journalistic incompetence, but this seems more like an anti-US hitpiece.
Ah yes, I had to expand the post as my initial thought was AK47 autoflower. I couldn't have been more wrong.
The title picture for this article shows a fully automatic gun that is illegal in all forms for civilian ownership in the US and does not come in a semi-auto version that is civilian legal. It is also used by the Haitian police as well as the police and governments of several Central and South American countries. It almost certainly did not come from the US.
view more: next ›