plspls_pls_ stop calling each other fascists or astroturfers unless you have a thorough understanding of the uncommitted movement and what u.s. primaries are. there is so much blatant misunderstanding and misinfo going on it’s bad.
edit: if any loser dares call for an uncommitted vote in the general election? i will kick them in the balls (gender neutral) (in minecraft)
And here I was thinking the uncommited movement meant something might be done. If you are still calling for Biden, then why even bother voting uncommitted? Why pretend to dissent if you'll fall in line when it matters?
To send a message in the primary, and avoid a Trump win in the general.
Is that not obvious?
There's no message being sent if there's no real threat behind the message or else the message isn't being received if the Biden administration doesn't change their stance.
Seems like the message has made its way through the news and social media. Just because Biden hasn't changed his stance completely doesn't mean the message isn't being received.
The message is he'll lose the election if he doesn't change his stance. So if he has received it and chose to ignore it then why is he running. Either he doesn't believe the threat or he doesn't want to win.
The message is that he's pissed off a huge portion of his base, and they don't approve of what he's doing.
There's obviously more work to be done advocating for change. And it can be done under Biden, or under Trump. Which would you prefer?
No that's not the message, the message is if he doesn't listen to the people he won't win the election. It's a scary precedent to set that if the Democratic party doesn't listen to +70% of it's people and he still gets elected simply because the other side is worse when would they listen to their voters? The other side is always worse at least since I've been following politics(since Bill Clinton). They always use that to excuse their inaction because they think voters will be too afraid of the opposition to question it. This is a clear message and for the reason to stop a genocide. If now is not a time to take a stand idk when will be.
I mean, it pretty clearly is.
You believe what you want to then.
I'll believe what people are actually saying, and what's actually happening.
I'd welcome you to join me in that!
Agreed. If you vote for Biden anyway, he doesn't have the incentive to care.
Do they wait for the next 4 years to do this again? I like the intention but honestly don't understand the point.
And if you don't, you risk something so much worse.
That's why Uncommitted is pointless. Thanks for confirming.
Only if you think peaceful protests are pointless.
Nah, you can do peaceful protests that would give incentives to Biden.
So, no, not only. Also not that I think that way.
Voting unconfirmed in the primary gives incentives to Biden?
Because the path to change course can only come from the democratic party in this duopoly. The Republican party will only ever get more fascist, and voting Republican will only accelerate towards fascism. There is at least a chance for change within the democratic party. At the national, voting for the least worse option (Biden), is harm reduction. And that is still important, regardless how broken this joke of a democracy is.
Organization and civil unrest can still push Biden to the left on issues even after the election, that's not possible under trump. It's important to vote in the national, but remember voting in your local elections for candidates is also super important and your vote goes a lot further.
voting is not harm reduction, and the less worse option is either jill stein or cornel west.
I'm talking about the National, not the Primary. Third party doesn't work in a duopoly created by a FPTP voting system, that's the unfortunate reality. Voting Democrat is absolutely harm reduction.
https://www.indigenousaction.org/voting-is-not-harm-reduction-an-indigenous-perspective/
In America, we have a duopoly of the Republican party and Democratic party. Our FPTP voting system creates a two-party system and prevents any challenge to the two parties due to the spoiler effect. This is by design, both parties serve the capitalist class.
A Republican presidency is significantly more harmful to everyone (other than capitalists) than a Democratic presidency. The Republican party continues to and will only get more fascist. The Democratic party inches towards fascism due to the ratchet effect. Voting Democrat is harm reduction as it delays more fascist policies. This is because Democratic administrations are less harmful than Republican ones.
This is to reduce future harm, not reverse current harmful policies and systemic injustices. That kind of harm reduction requires Organization. Which is why it's important to do more than just vote. That's why it's critical to participate in awareness, organization, and action. Especially in local politics. All of which is easier to do under democratic presidency, because their policies are less fascist.
If you think I support or like the democratic party, you're absolutely wrong. I just recognize it's better to have them in power than to have Republicans in Power. Voter apathy only helps Republicans and the ruling class.
is storytelling
no, they aren't.
so stop putting them in power.
that's not what harm reduction is.
no, they aren't.
neither jill stein nor cornel west are democrats
Political change comes from the people. Civil rights didn't come from voting, nor did worker's rights. If voting changes nothing, then it is useless to vote, simple as that. Organizing and forcing the changes people want is how you get what you want when your leaders don't listen.
I agree that more than voting is necessary and voting is the bare minimum. But it's still important to vote nonetheless. Do you know of any resources to help people to organize?