this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think that solves things because I can just come up with a scenario where all these issues don't exist, it's clear what's actually missing is rules like consent.

So, an example without these issues: someone is kidnapped (drugged, it was painless) and a surgeon without consent removes their kidney, to be used to help a dirt-poor dying child. No threat of infection, no hypothetical of it being sold to an exploitative rich person, etc. but we still have the problem the meme points.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The violation of consent itself is another form of harm, as we see in cases of r***. The scenario you proposed would still be causing more harm than the voluntary method.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Violating someone's bodily autonomy causes harm but I don't think consent itself exists in utilitarianism. "Dont do stuff to people that they dont consent to" is a rule. I think it's clear that the mental anguish of having your extra kidney taken would be less than all the pain avoided by the child not going through a slow and painful death, and all the happiness they gain in the chance to a life they can now live.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Consent certainly can be a factor in utilitarian analyses, but it depends on the philosopher how strongly it is weighted. I'm not a strict utilitarian myself; my original point was to show that the premise of the meme (and in general, public understanding of utilitarianism) focuses too much on an extreme, comically oversimplified view of utility analysis.