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TRIGGER WARNING: We have people self immolating because of genocides happening and because people are losing housing.
(lemmy.world)
@Jaybefaunt
TRIGGER WARNING: We have people self immolating because of genocides happening and because people are losing housing. This nation is going down and it's the greed of the capitalists that's the cause.
I'm basically in that elderly gentleman's shoes as far as housing goes. I'm sorry to his family and to him for being pushed into this situation.
@weareronin47
Elderly man self-immolates while being evicted.
Housing is a human right.
Direct link to video: https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1775547959775502338/pu/vid/avc1/640x360/8Bhf9UQdY6pfh4gx.mp4
Source: https://twitter.com/Jaybefaunt/status/1775639781868720573
surely the housing crisis is unrelated to mental health
What percentage of Americans burn themselves to death because of housing insecurity? The problems can cross paths at some point, but be two different problems.
Spoken like someone that has never felt the desperation and complete hopelessness that comes with housing insecurity. It's probably one of the worst feelings I've ever felt and knowing there is nothing you can do about it makes it even worse. I've seen way worse things than self immolation because of getting evicted.
The thing with getting evicted is that if you don't have any other options it could potentially ruin your entire life. I live paycheck to paycheck these days and if I lost my job it would create a domino effect that will completely undermine everything in my life. You could lose everything you own, lose your job, lose access to food, and even lose your own life because of it. Shelter is the first thing people prioritize when lost in the wilderness for a reason. Because without it you are basically fucked.
Now, I'm not saying this is a reasonable response to getting evicted. But at the same time, in that moment when you know you are about to potentially lose everything in your entire life, people get desperate.
Untrue. But I did have resources I was able to leverage, unlike many others. And I was fortunate not to have any underlying mental health issues at the time that could have been exacerbated by the situation.
You ever stop to wonder if lack of such resources is what leads to said "mental health issues," which are really the logical consequence of deprivation?
yeah wouldn’t want to try and help these people with housing on the off chance it helps with their mental health, probably way more effective to just point out to them that their problems are entirely their own and they most likely would have harmed themselves anyway. good talk
I didn't say that-- you're saying that.
What I'm saying is that in addition to the housing crisis, you have a mental health crisis, and it's irresponsible to ignore or conflate the two.
It's wild how desperate y'all are to gloss over how much deeper these situations go, because it gets in the way of a headline.
okay sorry. what do you suggest for helping with the mental health crisis then?
A good start is being able to talk about it and have dialogue, without getting defensive. Stigmatization is alive and well, and it's one reason why people don't seek resources and help.
So in your opinion, material conditions (such as housing and healthcare) aren't the cause of the mental health crisis? People just need to talk about it more and it will all go away?
You read "a good start" and translated it to "the whole solution"?
To me, the start of a solution must lead to the solution.
I don't see how conversations on individual people's mental health leads to changes in material conditions. To me that reads as "more people need to individually seek or be encouraged to seek therapy" than addressing the material conditions.
I get what you're (poorly) trying to say, but in the context of this thread - an old man lighting himself on fire during the eviction - we can safely assume his mental state is being largely influenced by the eviction.
It's pretty ridiculous to assert that self immolation is exclusively a mental health situation that is entirely insulated from the outside world, as though mental health and a person's environment are mutually exclusive and have absolutely 0 affect on each other.
It's a very convenient way of reducing problems to an individual level to completely avoid the root causes.
Maybe you are just trying to be some data purist who believes self immolation can only be done by someone in a mental health crisis - and mental health crises are exclusively internal and cannot be tied to external circumstances??
For future reference, lighting yourself on fire while actively protesting war, or actively being evicted probably has more to do with the realities of war and housing crises, and less to do with forgetting breathing exercises and lacking cognitive behaviour therapy strategies.
Someone doesn't just suddenly light themselves on fire because of either of these catalysts, without having any underlying mental health struggles that went untreated or simply were brought to a head. Feel free to break that down and correlate that any way you want to the state of the world, their environment, etc, if out of avoidance or because it's easier and more satisfying to say, "this one thing had this outcome!"
An event can force a mental health crisis. You're wrong if you believe otherwise.
You're trying to say "everyone who lights themselves on fire is having a mental health crisis" - this is true.
You're also saying "if a common event like eviction results in self immolation it's entirely the fault of mental health crisis and not eviction, because not everyone evicted self immolates" - this is false.
You're intentionally reversing cause and effect, when it's obviously wrong.
It's a weird thing - you getting your rocks off acting willfully ignorant and belligerent over some arbitrary belief that events can't be responsible for a mental health crises if the reaction isn't typical.
Why do you insist it is so important that everyone you interact with in this thread believes only mental health crisis can carry the blame?
Why is it not possible for someone who is being evicted to light themselves on fire because they are being evicted?
What makes this exclusively a mental health issue, and not a housing crisis issue?
Which would be more effective at stopping self immolations during eviction - affordable housing preventing eviction but no mental health support? Or mental health support prior to eviction, but the individual will still be homeless?
Which outcome is better? If the old man didn't self immolate, but instead became homeless? Or if the old man was never worried about losing shelter because they would never lose shelter?
I imagine getting kicked out of your home to live on the street at 80+ would do wonders for your mental health.
So you agree, the self-immolation was a reflection of a mental health crisis, and the eviction was a trigger?
What do you get out of this interaction?
You're a beacon of light. I'm getting absolutely nothing out of this, good point.
Fuck you're toxic. Please leave the dialog to the people arguing both in good faith and with some eloquence and just go smug yourself off in a dark room somewhere where we don't have to see to this self-indulgent wankery.
I particularly got less out of this than anything prior.
The fact that your entire tone shifted to one of aloof denial and 'masterful intentionality!' after this suggests that it actually hit you quite close to home. You clearly had been hedging around the issue, and people have been attempting to engage you in good faith instead of calling you out to your face. It's hard to deny the impression your comments give when you're getting ratio'd on lemmy though. That's... that's rough. Your initial point about mental health was founded from a perspective that we can all understand, but you didn't factor in what a huge effect material concerns have on a person's mental health. The two are very linked, and for any one of a thousand possible reasons, you just missed the mark.
And that's okay.
You're letting yourself be ruled by an unfounded anxiety about your own intellectual inferiority and you're sensitive to any flaws in your reasoning or arguments as a result - that's why you were trying so hard to use clarification to adjust the initial meaning of your statement. I wanna assure you that from even a brief read of your comment history nah, you're plenty intelligent. I doubt you have many concrete indications in your life to point to, which is okay those will come in time.
But you're going to be a happier person if you can learn to accept and admit that you were wrong. My kneejerk reaction to things like this is to do exactly the same thing you're doing, and I spent a good portion of my youth being the same kind of commenter-that-claims-they-were-a-troll-all-along as you are, and I was miserable. Letting you in on a secret here though: People estimate the intelligence of an individual who's admitted their fault to be much higher than someone that sticks to a clearly flawed argument and argues from the ego until the fire in their metaphorical cave has burned down to embers. It's a basic trick of actual social manipulation (instead of the bush league tricks image board trolls rely on), and it's never failed me. Maybe it'll work for you too.
Tldr?
Lmfao, you forreal? Is this what passes for bait nowadays? Christ, fine, have a pity nibble. But dude, this is just embarrassing. Up your game.
What about a complete stranger who thinks you probably don't/didn't get enough attaboys from mom n pop? Did their lack of love cause you to enjoy any attention at all, like a child acting up in class? Is the derision of strangers that exciting, where youd beg for it like this to someone who clearly looks down on you?
At this point I'm only responding because it's perplexing (and admittedly somewhat affirming) how angry this has made some of you. And how weird it is that you're giving me attention, while in the same breath accusing me of needing attention.
Honestly? Because i don't lie to myself. We both get off on attempting to annoy people, but perhaps you are uncomfortable admitting it. My personal targets are trolls, people just like you, that i feel need a good lesson in humility.
Sometimes it works, sometimes i get a funny response. Sometimes they're unreachable, or at least pretend well enough. and i think youre probably that second one. I won't get the response that will satisfy me, so ill just find someone else that ll scratch that itch
Eviction caused a mental health crisis which resulted in self immolation (you can also insert any negative outcome at this point).
You have invented a "hierarchy" of cause and effect that is backwards.
The correct order of operations is: Event happens that forces a mental health crisis in an individual, which can have various results (sometimes immolation).
Some people with mental health issues may be in a near perpetual state of mental health crisis. This is the only type of situation where you'd be correct and anything could be a trigger. This is absolutely not the standard, but you assert that it is, which is why you are wrong.
Mental health issues don’t exist in a vacuum
… motherfucker I do not think I can fit inside my vacuum.
Why would you given me this knowledge?
Your momma is so fat she can't fit into space
Ohshit
I wonder what effects mental health. Possibly material conditions of people? Maybe capitalism prioritizing profit over every thing else causes mental illness in people who are exploited for the greed of few?
No shit dumbass. That doesn't change anything.
That's typically how cause and effect work. How astute of you.
And since mental health is healthcare, we don't have to do anything about it at all. Because as we know, the free market healthcare system is self solving and bulletproof so we should never do anything to try to fix it. Murica.
Luckily, the US ALSO brushes mental health under the table making MH care equally inaccessibly expensive and unattainable!
U S A!
U S A!