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I hate that we lost sight of what wealth really is and replaced it with the idea of profit. I bought my house to provide myself with financial security, not profit.
My monthly "rent" (mortgage payment) is locked in for the next 25 years and will not go up. At the end of those 25 years when I'm ready to retire, I'll have housing with only taxes and insurance payments. THAT is wealth. THAT is what home ownership is meant to be. If housing prices fall, it won't change my life a bit.
That's why I bought a house instead of renting. One day it will be paid off, and from that on, as long as I keep paying the property tax nobody can kick me out. They can cut my water and electrcity, but the house and the plot remains mine.
Meh I don't care. We bought a couple years ago when rates were super lower but prices were high. Our mortgage is less than rent would be and we're not going anywhere for a long time. I think of the house as a place to live, not an investment really. Like a car. It serves a purpose and I'll use it until I can't anymore.
Yup the people that are mostly disadvantaged by (and cause) a housing crash are the people that treat houses like stocks.
Same boat. Got a 10 year lock in at ~2% interest and now the rates are more then double that.
Going to do everything we can to keep that rate although we doing extra repayments just in case.
You point out the Catch-22 that a lot of people miss on this stuff. They get so fixated on increasing their property values because they want to screw someone over when they finally sell their house....not stopping to think that the same thing is about to happen to them when they go to buy one. Not to mention, higher property values means higher property taxes (in some places, anyway).
Yeah like it's cool my 200k town home I bought 4 years ago is now selling for 400k (neighbor just sold for that much).
Except that means that the 350k home I was thinking might be a nice upgrade one day, is 700k.
Like I'm way more screwed over now unless I intend to like sell my home then move to the middle of nowhere. All that higher value means is property taxes like you said. But of course renters are the most screwed.
This is precisely why your home price won't crash. You are locked in and so is everyone else. You literally can't do better, so selling is a bad move.
We need a housing market crash. My pocket book be damned. We'll figure it out. The next generation won't.
Ain't that the truth.
I live in Orem, a city you probably have never heard of. Population of under 100k, not a rich city by any means. Median individual income of 26k, median household income of 65k.
There are no single family homes for sale under 400k, and all apartment/condos for sale are 300k.
Just picking a random apartment for sale for a little under 300k and doing an estimate of 10% down with current rates is a mortgage of 2.2 k a month on 30 year fixed. So of course whoever buys and rents these out are going to do so at AT LEAST that number.
With JUST taxes taken out of 65k bringing it down to 45k, the mortgage/rent alone would be well over half the median house hold income for these things. But of course there would be HOA, withdrawals for 401k, withdrawals for medical care, etc. Meaning it would probably be closer to 70% of median household net just to pay mortgage on the cheapest apartment for sale.
And of course we can repeat this exercise for just about any city and get the same result. It's scary.
Non-home owner of Lemmy here. I want you all to know that my fondest wish to see the housing market completely implode is strictly not personal.
My only chance to buy a house slipped away a few years ago. House prices have gone up by 50% or more in some locations, and interest rates have more than doubled. What was previously affordable is now completely outside my means to pay for each month.
My last hope now is for a 2008 repeat so I might be able to snag something up for what it's actually worth. I certainly can't count on the state or the government to take the housing crisis seriously enough to have them actually build more affordable housing for people to buy and drive the asking prices lower.
i bought my house at the top (two years ago) and no regrets. less about it being an investment and more about having a stable place to call my own that gives me safety and not at the whims of a landlord. i’d quite like it if house prices became more affordable for everyone, the counter intuitive thing to say. 🤷♂️ i was supposed to become a nimby and vote conservative but now i’m more left wing than ever.
Pretty much this. I'm quite content with losing some of my net worth if it means other people don't have to struggle as much to have their own place to live.
Houses should have never been an investment.
Burn the entire fucking thing down.
If I burn my house down then where will I live?
In your new Wells Fargo Lifepod(tm)! 160 sqft of essential living. Conviently stackable. Durable metal construction. Only $3900/mo!
Yes, and it will cost me some money as I'm getting ready to put mine on the market in the coming months.
But I don't give a shit, the current conditions are unsustainable and I have great empathy for the generations behind me that are excluded from what is a fucking FOUNDATION of getting a stable life going. The shit has to come tumbling down at some point, otherwise our social structure will continue to degrade. The people who will bitch and moan about it are so out of touch they should be ignored anyway. Bring on the crash.
There are too few people like you in the world. I appreciate your attitude.
The housing market isn't going to crash. We're at the highest mortgage rates in 23 years and it's STILL a sellers' market. The fact is, inventory being incredibly low + home buying being desirable for many == no reason for a crash. Even the Great Recession only resulted in a temporary price dip.
I know a lot of millennials and zoomers would LIKE for there to be a crash because they think it would let them afford a home. This is a false belief, though: if there were a major crash, it would likely be accompanied by a recession in the labor market too, so there goes your ability to pay for the house.
Also, it's not black and white. If house prices and interest rates cooled off, it would let me (a homeowner) refinance my mortgage.
Morever, there are benefits to home ownership outside of equity / profiting off a sale:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/housing-market-crash-experts-191734802.html---
I mean things can get way worse. Look at Canada and Australia. No sign of a crash in either yet, prices just keep climbing. Homeless encampments and the like were alien to us up until recently. The median Aussie household income is ~$65,000. Homes start at about $600,000 and at that price a lot of them are teardowns, you'd be spending at least $200,000 in repairs.
Banks want 20% down.
It is scary, definitely.
I rent a nice house, I'm lucky. I've also not had a holiday in over a decade...
Housing as a wealth generator is a bit of a lie. Prices going up only benefit people or corporations who own multiple homes or those who rent out their homes, and the few people downsizing for retirement by selling their 2500+ sq ft for a small apartment somewhere.
For the regular Joe you always need somewhere to live, so it doesn't matter if your houses is $100k or $1 million, that money is always going to be tied up in the house and not be spendable.
If anything the prices being high is worse for regular home owners because you're going to be paying thousands more in interest on the mortgage that goes straight to the banks.
I'm not arguing in favor for house prices going up but just wanted to point out how a lot of people use the value of their home. You can pull out money from your house and your interest payments don't change when the value of your house goes up.
I'll give the example of my neighbor. They bought their house 10 years ago at about $250k. Interest rates were around 4.5%. We're in a location that got really hot during the pandemic and the house value jumped to about $700k. At that moment, they had the same payments as 10 years ago. Then interest rates dropped down below 3%. His balance on the original mortgage is probably about $175k and now he refinances the house with a mortgage of $325k, pays off the old loan, and pockets $150k out of the house. But due to the lower interest rates, his payment is the same as it was 10 years ago. He just has $150k in his pocket. Meanwhile, I'm the schmuck who had to buy the identical house at $700k at 5% and pay 3x for the same house.
Non-home owner, currently I could live a hundred lives and never own a home. It must crash, and it must become regulated to prevent this from occurring.
I have no issues with that. I'm not living here to make a fortune on speculation. I am living here because it is my home, and I leave selling this to our kids once we are dead, hopefully many decades in the future.
Let it crash!
Big housing prices only benefit the people owning multiple homes.
Because it doesn't matter what the housing cost is if you sell your only home, because you will need to buy a new home at the same cost anyway. Since everyone need a house to live.
Homes should not be considered investments.
Your home rising in value doesn't benefit you, because you still need to live in one if you sold it, and that home has likely also risen in value. Your house doesn't grow when its value does. It doesn't sprout an extra bedroom.
As a homeowner, there is nothing to be ready for. Nothing has value unless you're trying to buy or sell it and I'm doing neither in the near/medium future regardless of the price of my home. I bought before prices went stupid so I feel like it is unlikely any crash will do the value to below what I paid.
My condo is paid in full. I want the market to sink like a stone.
This current housing market has everyone trapped. I cannot sell and upgrade because I'm not going to pay 7% interest on the part I don't have in my bank account.
If the market crashes hard enough these huge corporations that have been sucking up all the single family homes will probably start unloading them at lower and lower prices to pay their creditors. It could be good for people who want to buy. Couple that with the coming crash of corporate office space and it could be quite an interesting time.
The real truck is going to be coming up with legal/constitutional bans on corporate ownership of single family houses.
I don't really know what people are expecting to happen?
It's true that the housing market does not represent real value of the asset at all. You pay double or triple 'real' value, and it seems that OP is suggesting a market correction is due.
Whilst that may be true in some areas that are actively collapsing with major population drain due to crime, lack of work etc (I'm certainly not familiar with the USA or its cities) - overall the supply of houses is still vastly outstripped by the demand of people that would like to own one. The population continues to grow via immigration and births to prop up the never ending shell game of annual GDP growth.
Whilst there may be regional blips, unless there are massive social housing programs that flood the market with cheap, desirable dwellings then I'm not sure why anyone would expect the housing market to crash. Until the shell game and the table they play on is flipped and burned, the housing market will not crash. It's the most basic supply/demand equation out there.
I mean we had those same situations, and we still had the collapse of the housing market in 2008 in the US, because everyone defaulted on loans at once on overinflated houses, then houses shot back to proper value. Losing an estimated 25% value.
So it just feels like that might happen, because housing prices are soaring and interest rate is so high. So I mean, if it happened once in similar situation, it doesn't seem unreasonable to say it might happen again.
Your HOME is not an investment. Unless you're planning to sell and live in a cardboard box.
For me personally, my wife and I are probably going to stay in this house until it's time for the old folks home so it's just numbers that'll never actually mean anything. If it crashes by half or more I'll actually get a reduction to my property tax.
Let it crash, this is unsustainable. Having a secure, long-term roof over your head shouldn't be so fucking hard.
I 100% want a market crash. When I was fresh out of college and checking out possible houses, even in more rural areas, it just never seemed like I'd be able to own a home. It's so much worse now than when I graduated. Literally cannot see a future where I own a home unless I inherit from my parents.
There will absolutely be a population crash in the US & other countries suffering from the housing crisis, nobody will feel like they can raise a family. None of my co-workers or friends foresee ever starting one if they can't get a house.
Was watching a video on YouTube, some hyperactive landlord "influencer" type was bitching how new homes were getting built in his town. Went on and on about how it's bad for everyone if more homes get built and if prices went down. Of course, everyone was tearing him apart in the comments.
We need more homes, we need lower prices, unsure if it'll happen though.
The interest on my mortgage is fixed for the next 10 years, so I'm more than OK with a crash. In fact, I hope it crashes hard so those who own properties as investments burn.
Someone is renting out a duplex by me for $2700 a month.
I hope it crashes and burns so they have to sell at a heavy loss for the crime of trying to rent out just a normal home for so much.
Like this was supposed to be the affordable part of town with small homes, town homes, and condos. Now investors are like... what if revenue stream?
Can't wait. Maybe then we can finally afford a decent house instead of our tiny apartment-style condo.
Not worried if we can't sell, cause we can always rent.
Capitalism is a Ponzi scheme. Build up debt, and pay it off by transferring it to the next generation of suckers.
I look forward to the crash, and hope it's not just a reset of the same system.
(German)Homeowner and (small time) landlord here: Yes. And I look forward to it. We bought an old house (think 1940ies) a while back and did renovate it. While it was expensive the absurd thing wasn't actually the price but the price for craftsman and material. The former already crashed heavily here (sadly not for the ones I need).
I rent out three apartments in the same house I live in. We have an average rent index here and I stick to it (even though I could easily get more as we don't include extras in our calculations that we normally could add to get more rent - and with that market we easily could get more.
The way we financed the house is based on the premise that the market will crash - it is not a regular investment in the sense that we will come out with a net positive. It is a way to make sure that we don't need to rent anymore (which is hell at times) and that we do have a place where we must not worry about rent when we are old. If the kids do inherit something,nice,but not a must.
We initially didn't even want something to rent out, but the perfect house was one with more than one apartment. So we said why not.
So why do I want the market to crash? Renting is absurd these days. Craftsman prices are insane. Both of these problems can only be solved once the market has crashed - which means either we have much less people (likely to happen,but late) or first pick up building subsidized apartments on a much larger scale (which makes the later problem much bigger). But if we don't do something soon it will make basic services (nursing is a good example) even unobtainable as people in these jobs won't be able to afford their rent in the more expensive regions. This will affect everyone.
Line goes up? My housing payment stays the same. Line goes down? My housing payment stays the same. I was lucky inasmuch as I borrowed back when banks were practically paying us to take out loans, so if I ever have to refi I'm gonna eat shit, but I also bought what I needed instead of what I could afford and I put more than my mortgage payment into savings every month so shit is gonna have to go real bad before I'd ever be forced to refi. This is my place to live and buying it wasn't so that I could leverage it to get into the aristocrat class. I bought it to protect myself from those same aristocrats who would raise my rent every year until I'm paying twice as much as I am now for half as much house to actually live in.
The only real bummer about a housing market crash is that it will accelerate us into being a renter society overall. A few people might claw their way out, but if prices dropped by half tomorrow all that would mean is the predatory megalandlords can take twice as many houses off the market with the same money.
I already have a home. I don't need 20 of them. I'm not going to get mad about something that benefits the majority of the control. It just sucks because a market crash just means that people who already have multiple homes are going to be able to buy even more.
Don’t care. My land and my house are mine, and I don’t care what somebody else thinks how much they might be worth.
Hey, newer homeowner here. If the housing market crashes, does that actually affect me at all? Or is it just like, I can't profit if I wanted to sell my house or some shit
It would ruin our equity. So no selling or refinancing for awhile.
It would mostly hurt people selling, renting, renovating, and building homes.
My grandparents bought their house back in the 1950s for the equivalent of 35,000 dollars adjusted for inflation and now that house is worth over half a million. The house I live in now was bought for around 150k back in the early 2,000s and it too would sell for about half a million. And of course, last year housing prices increased by 30% in one year. There is no way in hell this is sustainable. It is not a question of if the housing market collapses but when and it will thoroughly deserve it.
I mean, a crash is usually used and abused by the big players to gobble stuff up if they survived and didn't go bankrupt (hell even if they do another whale usually swallows them) yet I don't see another way for most people to afford a home. But then again, the area I'm in isn't crashing even if the rest of the country does. If it resulted in lower rates would love to refinance tho, 5% isn't great.
