this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 41 points 6 days ago (26 children)

Great. Glad to see that we're learning nothing here. If I wasn't pushed into despair by the election results, seeing progressives respond this way to the loss might push me over the edge.

We are a bigoted country, no doubt. But, our working class is struggling. People are inherently good, inherently bad, brilliant, dumb, and all sorts of combinations of those. Material conditions, messaging, and framing all work together in bringing out these different sides of ourselves both at the societal and individual level.

Responding to this loss with "the only way to win is to be racist" is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right. If we decide to roll over and die because we're too chickenshit to fight, too cynical to have any imagination, and too self-pitying to even lift a finger, the most vulnerable of us (which includes me) will perish.

We HAVE to be better than this.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

These aren't progressives. These are liberals. These are the same people who, when they were told 8 years ago that economic anxiety made voters turn to Trump, mocked them, saying, "Oh, I guess the economy made them racist!"

Yeah, racism and misogyny played a huge role in this election, but people don't vote for a guy who promises to burn everything down when they're doing well. I'd have thought this time, given that the Democrats lost ground with both black and Latino voters, they might finally have to acknowledge that their failures are due to more than just bigotry. I'm starting to doubt that, though...

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Responding to this loss with “the only way to win is to be racist” is basically just giving up and saying the fascists are right.

And the joke is that Dems will still lose on these terms, because they are already branded the Woke party. Might as well try and out-racist the KKK as the GOP. It's not a race Dems are in a position to win. All they can do is shed even more of their base to Jill Stein and Uncommitted.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Democrats continuing to insist they need to get more racist instead of appealing to their base.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 6 days ago (32 children)

Republicans have a vision. Democrats have a list of policy proposals. Average people can grok the vision but since they read at a 6th grade level they don't grok the policy proposals.

Democrats need to stop acting like nerds if they want more people to like them.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 6 days ago (2 children)

But I was told it was just that our policy proposals weren't left enough?

Unironically, you're right. Most voters don't vote based on any kind of coherent ideology. They vote on feels.

God help us all.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 6 days ago (12 children)

If the policy proposals were far left enough they'd start to look a helluva lot more like a vision.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

I want a country where everyone pays less for healthcare. If it can be done for seniors, why not everyone else?

I want a country where everyone's private medical decisions remain between them and their doctor, without being cleared by your local, state, or federal representative or by a judge.

I want a country where everyone who works, pays taxes, and does not commit violent crime or property theft can stay and keep working without having to look over their shoulder.

I want a country where if you work full time, you can afford your rent/mortgage, put food on the table, start a family, and still be able to retire.

There's a vision. Apparently all of these things have become radically progressive leftist positions and are attacked as such by the media and conservatives alike.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 days ago (3 children)

How the fuck do democrats win here then? After the Harris/Dump debate i feel like there was a lot of conjecture about how Harris didnt talk about policy enough. How do you get away with talking about policy but not "sounding like a nerd" to uneducated voters? See I think this is more about the average voter not being educated enough to understand the issues and the policies potential nominees have pertaining to them, or how their lives would be affected depending who/what they vote for.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Start offering policies that help average people. Run on medicare for all. Run on forcing pharmaceutical companies lowering drug prices. Run on building new factories to create solar panels, geothermal equipment, and wind turbines. Run on creating affordable housing and ending corporate landlords. Run on campaign finance reform with a promise of ending political ads that everyone hates.

The Democrats problem is tha they won't do any of that because their donors dont want it. But as long as the DNC values their donorsore than their voters, they will continue to lose elections.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Harris' messaging problem is the same problem Hilary Clinton had in 2016. Instead of appealing to the base, she went after Republicans and just assumed the left would be on board. The Democratic establishment does this every time, move closer to the center and right and tell the leftists shut up and go away.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The average Democrat is a well off person living in the suburbs who doesn't want higher taxes but doesn't want to appear racist.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 6 days ago (29 children)

I understand the poster may be very emotional because of the election. Yet, This strikes me as incredibly reductive.

I think she lost because, she represents the continuation of the current administration. People want to break from the status quo, even if that means harming society to do it.

The dems need a left wing populist, asap.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Keep pushing this message. Keep doubling down. I'm looking forward to the fact that most of you learn nothing, you insist the other side is just dumb, and you'll scream so from your lungs as 2028 is an even bigger bloodbath for the Dems.

California just voted to raise gas prices in CA by a full dollar in response to trump winning. Can't make this shit up.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 6 days ago (8 children)

The problem is the Democrats are scared to push back hard, they try to move to the right to capture moderate voters, and then lose 10x as many voters to the left who don't care enough to vote because the Democrats are trying to make concessions with absolute lunatics.

The DNC seems like it just doesn't have a spine. Doesn't matter now, it's all fucked and it's too late.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Maybe it’s as simple as: outrage is memorable, policy is boring. For all too many voters, all they remember is the last thing that outraged them.

I don’t know how you work with that though, since people on the left seem to care more about policy, character, platform.

But maybe it tracks back to the “shift yo center” right before the election. I know it’s an attempt to attract any remaining undecideds and avoid last minute mistakes but that clearly didn’t work.

I don’t know if it’s just my echo chamber, but Harris, and waltz, both came out in the stage in a flood of emotion. They were live, genuine, caring. I know Trump tried to belittle Harris’ smile and laugh but she pulled it off. She seemed genuine and alive, in contrast to that ancient senile tyrant. Her rise was emotional, and in a good way. Then as the election approached, they became too cautious and lost that emotional jet engine that had them zooming into the sky

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago (8 children)

Yeah let's blame white supremacy and ignore the fact that the democratic candidate lost FOURTEEN MILLION voters this election cycle.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

The problem with Harris is the problem of all liberals: they don't understand the problems liberalism is causing. Fascism offers terrible solutions to those problems, and thus it wins.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago

The only messaging problem was taking the momentum of the debate and shitting on it with the right-wing heelturn the moment the Cheneys said "never Trump".

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago (3 children)

The problem with Kamala Harris's messaging was that she didn't have millions of Xitter bots scaring people into voting for her.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago

She didn't? I believe that's exactly what she came across as when she said she wouldn't do anything different if she were to call the shots instead of Biden and also reminded everyone she signed off on most of his decisions. Sure, she lost votes because of sexism as well, but instead of fresh air she chose to bring stale coffin smell to the fart battle and lost to the stink Trump was all too happy to discharge. And that coffin did smell of a old white dude, let me tell you.

That being said, for such a gigantic loss against someone as obnoxious as Trump, there had to be a lot of factors in play. Sexism and stagnation of the party being just a tip of the iceberg.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

She did try her darnedest too, though.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Harris is missing 10 million votes that Biden got in 2020. It looks like many of those 10 million were suburban men who didn't vote Trump, just sat on the couch. misogyny is a viable explanation for this because otherwise you'll have to explain why Biden set the left on fire, or why Biden was so inspirational to men.

She lost the scrote vote, simple as that.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago

Some of it is 100% misogyny, I think some of it is also that 4 years ago the country was literally on fire in a lot of places and Trump was obviously to blame for a lot of it, so it didn't matter so much to apathetic voters if Biden's messaging was weak. Kamala may have won then too, though misogyny would have made it closer. Now the country is much more stable but still not great, but Democrats are in charge and therefore obviously to blame, so people who largely haven't been affected negatively by the Republicans (e.g. men, especially non-desperately-poor white men), are apathetic again

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