this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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Memory Alpha's riot timeline:

Early in the morning of September 1st, a fight between a guard and a dim sparked a riot, wherein the ghosts led by B.C. attacked the Sanctuary guards and quickly captured the Sanctuary Processing Center as well as the rest of the district. Armed with the weapons of the overpowered guards, the ghosts took six center employees hostage, including Vin, Calvera, and Lee. They were joined by "Gabriel Bell" and Michael Webb, who acted as the voice and face of the riot while dealing with police negotiator Detective Preston.

Chris Brynner, who owned Brynner Information Systems (which operated Channel 90 on the net), was convinced by Dax to break the law and to reconnect the Processing Center after the police cut it off. Reconnected on September 2nd, many Sanctuary residents (such as Henry Garcia) were able to tell their stories of imprisonment to the outside world. As a result, the American public became aware of the great injustice that had been hidden from them and further riots broke out in Sanctuaries across the US.

Despite protests from Detective Preston, the governor of California ordered National Guardsmen to retake the Sanctuary by force on September 3rd at 0500 hours. In the melee, hundreds of Sanctuary residents were killed, including B.C. and Michael Webb. "Gabriel Bell" was shot, protecting Vin and the other hostages (all of whom remained unharmed).

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bell_Riots

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I always find how current (for the time) ideas are used to shape the vision of the future. In the 90s cable was still extremely relevant but the internet wasn’t. So the idea of “channels” was mapped to it. And flat panel screens hadn’t become widely used (or even invented) as well as compute was in big gray boxes so that’s how they continued big honking computers. Even though it was supposed to be 30 years in the future from when the show was written.

You saw the same think in ToS and Star Wars too (mainly the tech difference between the OT and the prequels)

[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

AOL was still pretty widely-used then, and it used the concept of "channels" so it wasn't too much of a stretch. I suppose the writers figured that paradigm used for the early internet would stick.

Alternatively, they were accidentally right in that the internet, streaming specifically, is looping back around to become cable TV again.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I was telling my daughter a couple of days ago about how the internet was before the web and how you had to have separate software for IRC and for MUDs and for FTP and for USENET and for Gopher and so on, and then I suddenly realized that's what it's gone back to. A different app for everything.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago

OMG you're right. I didn't even think of it that way. Except now it's worse because every little thing has its own pointless app rather than just things on different protocols.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

YouTube has "channels"

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Every computer on TOS fits into room sized cabinets and has rows of blinkenlights on the front panel. This is what computers looked like when the show aired.

The blinkenlights are there to report the contents of the registers in binary code. This helps a lot when you are debugging by single-stepping the entire computer one instruction at a time. Any programmer today would think this is incredibly quaint.

The show completely missed the microcomputer revolution that was brewing in the real space program at the same time they were on the air. There was a period where Apollo Guidance Computer was consuming nearly the entire national supply of integrated circuits.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

The blinkenlights are there to report the contents of the registers in binary code. This helps a lot when you are debugging by single-stepping the entire computer one instruction at a time.

And now we have redstone torches for this.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The blinkenlights are there to report the contents of the registers in binary code...Any programmer today would think this is incredibly quaint.

True!

...

I still want one, though. They just look so cool.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

by the time DS9 was aired, there were very informative blinkenlights on modems, and the Be (or was it Bee?) had a set of averaged ones measuring things like CPU and memory utilization.

Up to this day computers still come with one for disk IO. And it's still useful.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

only if you have one disk... then the light stops being useful, because you don't know which disk is I/O'ing, and needed to debig further...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I suppose the modern equivalent would be looking at machine code with a hex editor.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Any programmer today would think this is incredibly quaint.

Like using a keyboard :D

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

True, although I was already on the internet in 1995 when this came out and it was clear to me even then that the writers didn't really do their research. But yeah, for most people it was still something that said "future." The web itself had only been invented three years before. The dot-com bubble wouldn't start for another couple of years. So it was this weird in-between time where the internet (or net or information superhighway as we now no longer call it) was the hot new thing but most people really didn't know what it was.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

i think they just called it the 'net'. i remember thinking it weird they didnt use the word 'internet'

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They did, but so did that Sandra Bullock movie. I think it was supposed to be the internet.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Stallone and Bullock in Demolition Man costume

"Hey, I was in that movie, too! They used to put my face on the cover...Of course, Sandra did do most of the work on that one..."

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

There are no wrong Sandra Bullock movies.

Except "All About Steve". That one is wrong.

Spoiler for 'All About Steve'It was not.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Oh gosh. I've already established myself as a die hard defender of all Sandra Bullock movies that aren't "All About Steve"... But I forgot about "The Net". Uh... I like my answer better.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I'm can't decide if this is a joke or not, and whether it's better that way or the other way around.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

— From the Net?

— No, from the Web.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Net channel 90 is fake news. I always tune my giant computer with small screen to channel 36.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

I mostly watch Network 23. On channel 23.

The only problem I have with them is they don't seem to be covering that story about people exploding in their homes...

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

“Did you get jacked?”

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

For most of this year, it has been just a meme, but people have gotten more and more reasons to actually riot. That makes me sad. Please don't actually riot.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

but people have gotten more and more reasons to actually riot. That makes me sad. Please don't actually riot.

So despite knowing that there are reasons to riot — even good ones — you'd prefer that society stay in the state that it is in?

"Pls maintain status quo, I'm scared of change"

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No, but Star Trek shows us we can change for the better. I’m not saying I have a solution to offer, but violence shouldn’t be encouraged or pushed higher up in the list of things to try…

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Whops I responded to a wrong comment before.

Anyway.

Data on political violence

Lt. Commander Data : But if that is so, Captain, why are their methods so often successful? I've been reviewing the history of armed rebellion, and it appears that terrorism is an effective way to promote political change.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Yes, it can be. But I have never subscribed to the theory that political power flows from the barrel of a gun.

Lt. Commander Data : Yet there are numerous examples when it was successful; the independence of the Mexican state from Spain, the Irish Unification of 2024, and the Kenzie Rebellion.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Yes, I am aware of them.

Lt. Commander Data : Then would it be accurate to say that terrorism is acceptable, when all options for peaceful settlement have been foreclosed?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Data, these are questions that mankind has been struggling with throughout history. Your confusion is... only Human.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well, you replied to the original poster so that’s hardly a mistake :)

The thing is that I agree. I don’t see Star Trek being a realistic future in any way, unfortunately. Now, the Terran empire on the other hand, minus the space faring stuff? Can’t be too far away. Doesn’t change my thoughts about violence though.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Based on nothing else than "nothing ever goes well"? You do remember that even in Star Trek, the early 21st century was garbage, historically?

There's the post-atomic horror, but we get to meet a few aliens who will help us slowly get back on track.

Just like with the bad predictions about the internet, if one were to jokingly interpret ST as prophecy, one could say that maybe they had the gist of it, but the details wrong. It's probably not Vulcans we'll meet, but perhaps we can manage to upturn the prohibition of ecstasy, LSD, shrooms etc and through that, we'll notice a marked difference in the world when people aren't getting drunk anymore and fighting, but rolling, being nice to everyone, etc. Deep cultural paradigm shift that's comparable to meeting Vulcans (who are more or less human).

Maybe don't give into the apathy and it won't win as easily.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is a far larger discussion than I’m willing to get into, and I know it’s not one that’ll cheer me up too, so I’m going to bow out of it while in agreement with

don't give into the apathy and it won't win as easily.

That’s why in a many countries we still have a right to vote. :)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Elections don't make a democracy. Fair ones can do, though.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-parliament-elects-xi-jinping-chinas-president-2023-03-10/

That’s why in a many countries we still have a right to vote. :)

Because I said you shouldn't give into apathy...? No. Because you think people haven't given into apathy? "It's not as shit as it COULD be"? Because I think that is a somewhat strong indicator that you're already an apathetic pessimist.

"I'm not willing to get into it" <--- case in point

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t consider voting just for show as actually voting, so when I say that I mean fair elections. Voting is how you don’t give in to apathy (about this stuff anyway), as the entire concept is there to allow some action, a push for change.

pessimist

Quite the sugar coating, but yeah. That is correct.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So would you that for instance in the US, most people vote "for show"? (As a reminder the US doesn't use direct presidential elections unlike other western democracies, but uses the electoral college, and has had several presidents who have lost the popular vote.)

Because I shouldn't think so, and I know there's several states which have/are getting legislation saying their electors will be bound to follow the popular vote. Which would all but do away with the electoral college.

Why'd you omit the "apathetic" part about the pessimist? Because it is what you are. You're an apathetic pessimist, even if you say you're not.

I'm not sugarcoating anything. I'm trying to make you stop sugarcoating this to yourself. You're apathetic, even if you go and vote every 4-6-8 years.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is part of why I intended to bow out, I’m not great at explaining myself. The thing about voting is about the meaningfulness of the act: if you get a vote to annex a region, and everyone knows what the result will be, then that’s not being given an option to vote, it’s a show that has been set up. Look, your definition of fair is likely the exact same of what I mean. And if somewhere people are allowed to vote, but it’s not a fair one, then that doesn’t count for me. That part was about the functionality of a vote, not the act itself: country A has a change in something after a vote, that’s what I called “many countries”. Country B has the results pre determined regardless? Ehhhh…

Why'd you omit the "apathetic" part about the pessimist?

Because I’m not convinced about that. I think it’s more along the lines of all consuming existential dread, you say “things aren’t as bad as they could be”, I think that realistically things aren’t yet as bad as they will be.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

And if somewhere people are allowed to vote, but it’s not a fair one, then that doesn’t count for me.

Or if they're allowed to vote, but the candidate who lost the popular vote is still elected? That would count as unfair, surely? That would be quite literally disregarding the will of the people. Right?

apathetic /ˌapəˈθɛtɪk/ adjective adjective: apathetic

showing or feeling no interest, enthusiasm, or concern. "an apathetic electorate"

You are, by definition, apathetic. "Things aren't as bad as they will get." Well what are you doing about it? Nothing? Wallowing in apathy, perhaps? Sure, some things will probably get worse. But most things have gotten better, historically. Look at crime stats and health stats. Aside from modern societies ills of capitalist shitfuckery and the exploitation of the labour classes, the world is doing pretty good compared to say, 50 years ago. So why won't you accept the possibility that things might in fact improve?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I know the definition of apathy, and that’s why I disagree with it applying to me. If you informed me that climate change is happening, I wouldn’t go “meh”, or “mainstream media fake news”. It would be along the lines of “thanks, I hate it”. I care, I worry. I do something about it when I can, maybe it’s not much but…

Also, you say 50 years ago. I say go back 100, with an asshole trying to make his country great again and invading a nearby one. With the rise of ultra nationalism, xenophobia, and uniting the people against a common enemy in the form of a minority/group. Or look at how governments criticize China, but it’s for the ideology rather than the actual reasons to criticize that government… nah, those are good ideas to copy and pass as original. Civil rights have improved a lot, no doubt about it. And that’s why they’re trying to take them back. Separation between church and state? “Christian values” are totally not reeking of god emperors. In Europe we’re doing a lot of good for the rights of people to their information! And there’s continued attempts to get mass surveillance going on, because “terrorists and child predators”. That, by the way, what is a terrorist? You could easily argue it’s someone trying to cause damage and panic by destabilizing a government. Freedom/freedom of speech? Absolute, cannot compromise on that! Obviously the others that think/look different from me are dangerous and need to be silenced, that’s not the same.

All that aside, you keep mentioning the popular vote thing. Well, that’s a thing I literally learned about moments ago, the main thing I understood is that it’s a really complex topic about good intentions and unforeseen consequences, and as such, because I know effectively nothing, I’m abstaining to discuss it. Best case scenario I’ll say something dumb, worst case something painfully wrong. Please take my argument about voting in the context of ignorance of this specific topic.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Fair ones can do, though.

You need so much stuff besides the elections that it's not even clear if elections are the result or a causal element of democracy.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

But it made things better!

(Until WWIII a few years later.)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I am legitimately frightened that it might happen. Though, in a sense, it would be epic if the Irish came together and told the rest of the world what they thought with Guinness and rude gestures before it happened.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Now I wanted to say something about the fact that we have lived over these last two or three summers with agony and we have seen our cities going up in flames. And I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non­-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view. I'm absolutely convinced that a riot merely intensifies the fears of the white community while relieving the guilt. And I feel that we must always work with an effective, powerful weapon and method that brings about tangible results. But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

-- Dr. Martin Luther King, speech to Grosse Point High School. March 14, 1968.

https://www.gphistorical.org/mlk/mlkspeech/

Something for you to consider.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Data on political violence

Lt. Commander Data : But if that is so, Captain, why are their methods so often successful? I've been reviewing the history of armed rebellion, and it appears that terrorism is an effective way to promote political change.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Yes, it can be. But I have never subscribed to the theory that political power flows from the barrel of a gun.

Lt. Commander Data : Yet there are numerous examples when it was successful; the independence of the Mexican state from Spain, the Irish Unification of 2024, and the Kenzie Rebellion.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Yes, I am aware of them.

Lt. Commander Data : Then would it be accurate to say that terrorism is acceptable, when all options for peaceful settlement have been foreclosed?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard : Data, these are questions that mankind has been struggling with throughout history. Your confusion is... only Human.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Narrator: and that one post on Lemmy changed the time line - there were no Bell Riots, and mankind did not change their outlook on compassion and social unity.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Instead, everyone spend all of there time on Lemmy

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

"Hmm. Computer says no."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I don't want riots to break out today. Or ever, really.

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