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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

I have not used an IDE since I ditched Turbo Pascal in middle school, but now I am at a place where everyone and their mother uses VS Code and so I'm giving it a shot.

The thing is, I'm finding the "just works" mantra is not true at all. Nothing is working out of the box. And then for each separate extension I have to figure out how to fix it. Or I just give up and circumvent it by using the terminal.

What's even the point then?

IDK maybe its a matter of getting used to something new, but I was doing fine with just vim and tmux.

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[-] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

Idk where you got the "just works" idea from, but maybe you're looking for something more like the jetbrains IDEs?

I still use the terminal all the time with VSC.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Yeah, I guess the idea of VSCode isn’t to be a “ready to use” IDE, but to be configurable — which it is.

The main thing that makes it popular nowadays is the ecosystem of plugins around it. Ex: when Copilot was released, I believe the VSCode plugin was the best one.

Also many frameworks docs have instructions on how to use it with VSCode and which plugins to install, such as some web frameworks and Flutter.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

On top of being super bloated, Intellij's Rider is far from "just working" in my experience. Not only is it super slow to boot, but it also changes asmdefs in my Unity project unprompted, in a way that prevents my project from working (creates cyclic dependencies). The debugger also sometimes doesn't trigger breakpoints 😵‍💫

I absolutely despise it, viscerally.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago

Vs codium, which is based on vscode but spyware is stripped out

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

Since no one told me this, I will trek people:

If you go for codium, be warned that one of the big points of vs code, extensions, gets a lot more of a hassle.

One of the things you lose is access to Microsofts extension store, and they've added their own instead, and that one is missing a lot.

If you want extensions from the Microsoft store, you need to download them manually from the website, and keep them updated manually.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

This includes the Python extension, so no Python for you (or at least no Pylance ;_;)

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

VSCodium > VSCode

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

VSCode isn’t an IDE, although you can kinda make it work like an IDE with extensions.

I use Visual Studio Professional as my IDE at work, but we do a lot of C#.

[-] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

With these modern extensible text editors the line between IDE and editor is too blurry to really tell. Many things people would agree are IDEs (like Eclipse) are entirely based around a plugin architecture too. I don't think it's worth it to split hairs over whether Visual Studio Code and similar programs are or aren't IDEs. With enough plugins, they're IDEs. With too few, they aren't. Where that line is is entirely subjective.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Like (Neo)vim, it's a PDE: Personalized Development Environment

Props to TJ DeVries for coming up with that term.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

VS Code is a great text editor for me. I write Markdown documents, manipulate bulk strings, and diff files with it. Aside from small scratch projects, its consistency and reliability as an IDE is varied for me. It's far from "just works", at least for the types of things I do (C, C++, C#, Rust) and isn't really on my list of editors I'd recommend for those workloads.

You can make it work, but it's going to require extensive time spent figuring out what extensions to use (and their quirks), ensure that you have a working setup to the language server, and learn how each environment wants you to setup its tasks and launch configurations, if applicable. Unlike larger IDEs like VS or Rider, it doesn't have a consistent "new project" process either, so you're on your own for that.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I wonder what troubles you had with rust in vscode. In my experience. I just install the rust-analyzer extension and it works every time.

Plus some (optional) extension to display the available dependency versions in the Cargo.toml.

Maybe debugging can be a bit tricky, but other than that it's just installing 1 (or 2) extensions.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

It's exactly that: the trickiness around debugging is the main thing that feels like it's got some barriers compared to a turnkey solution in an IDE. I heard VS Code and Godot was available until I realized that the LSP and debugger for Godot 4.x was unusable for months until the recent refactor.

Don't get me wrong though, I am totally using VS Code for my Rust projects. It just isn't a turnkey solution that I'd recommend to someone if they just want to hit "New project" and do the whole write-compile-debug loop without needing to understand anything. (I had also used it a while back prior to rust-analyzer being the main go-to extension, I think...)

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

I don't think VSCode's mantra is that it "just works". It's definitely a "platform" IDE like Eclipse was.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

I mostly use VS Code as a simple text editor with some of the CSV plugins. Though with JetBrains coming out with Fleet I've started to use that more. It doesn't have plugin support yet so it's not getting a lot of use.

For everything else I use whatever JetBrains IDE fits. For work, it's mostly IntelliJ, DataGrip, PyCharm, and DataSpell. At home, it's IntelliJ DataGrip and CLion. I guess I've kinda drank the JetBrains KookAid, but to me, it's worth the subscription to the all products pack. Especially if you are a polyglot since you keep a consistent IDE experience.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I've not had any of these issues with VSCode and i do use it just for the seamless Remote Development over SSH abilities.

The learning curve for it is a lot less than Vim even if Vim is likely a much more powerful tool imo

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

If you're already doing vim an tmux then vscode is not be worth it. The main draw of VSCode is LSP but you can get that from either COC or nvim+lspconfig. Those will still take more effort than vscode but it'll be more familiar.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

I used to use VSCodium (pretty much just VSCode without the closed source binaries and telemetry) but now I completely use Helix and Zellij.

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[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

I used vscode for a few years, but I eventually went back to neovim/tmux. It's a lot less resource heavy, and it's easy to just ssh and jump in from home. I also much prefer a modal editor and I don't want to have to touch a mouse.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

What do you mean fix it? I haven't had an issue with vscode or extensions unless I was going against established patterns.

For an actual recommendation, if you were fine with tmux and vim rock em yo. Don't forget vim has panes as well.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I use it because I'm switching between different projects and frameworks a lot. I found that me aligning with expected use patterns was easier than constantly adapting things for my magic setup.

I'm also not a config hound.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I switched to Zed recently. Very basic and definitely is not as feature rich as VSCodium but I'm sure it'll get better.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Just to add my two pennies (that's a saying, right?), I do use VS code as my default text editor. Professionally and for other projects in C++/C# I use the full fat visual studio. But for scripting, config editing, hex files, todo lists and such I use Code.

I've never been much of a person who needs to shave off every possible second in my workflow with macros and plugins, my brain is just not fast enough to out pace my hands, and the command palette does pretty much all I could wish for.

I of course wish it was fully open source, but for being the only Microsoft product I daily it isn't too bad.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I of course wish it was fully open source

Allow me to introduce you to Codium

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Last time I checked codium out it couldn't support the vs code marketplace/plugin repo. Is this still the case? I should take another look at it either way though :)

Edit: I answered my own question by reading some more comments. So looks like there are alternative plugin registries. I'll definitely have a go at switching now.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I use VSCodium instead of Visual Studio Code. Visual Studio Code is a closed source distribution of "Code - OSS". The names get a little confusing but Code - OSS is like Chromium, Visual Studio Code is like Google Chrome, and Codium is like ungoogled chromium. I use this because Visual Studio Code masquerades as being Open Source while hiding most of the functionality behind extensions in the marketplace while not letting other tools access the marketplace.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Check out Pulsar

https://pulsar-edit.dev/

It's basically the continuation of Atom. It's got rough edges though regarding plugins but it's good enough to allow me to avoid VSCode.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Hell no, Emacs and nvim UX is far superior. I won't ever go back to clicking.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

I used Sublime Text for YEARS, then they kept changing the license and pricing model, so with everyone at work going to VSCode I finally gave in for scripts and web dev. For Java (which is a decent chunk of my day) I use Intellij.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The problems you’re facing aren’t very clear. Can you expand a bit?

Lots of things in VS Code just work if you use the non-FOSS version and don’t need to install any system dependencies. For example, there are a ton of code formatters that you can install and run without tuning (eg I installed a SQL formatted last week with nothing else to do). There are also some that you need underlying dependencies for (eg if you want Rust extensions to work, you need the Rust toolchain; same for LaTeX); however this is true in any editor based on my experience (although some editors eg JetBrains might mask that through their GUI). Across both options, you often need to tune your extensions based on your use case or even hardware in some cases (eg setting up nonstandard PATH items).

YMMV for VSCodium, the FOSS version, primarily because it relies on a different extension registry per the terms of use. You can get around this as a user; as a vendor they cannot. Outside of tweaking the registry I’m not aware of anything else you need to do for parity.

Edit: forgot to tie all this back to my opener. What do you mean when you say it requires all sorts of work? Are you experiencing other issues than something I called out?

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Nope, at work, we use JetBrains IDEs and for my personal stuff, I'm using Kate.

Seeing the hype wave for VS Code was so bizarre, like millions of people discovered features that were just bog standard in IDEs for a long time. Two colleagues tried to sell it to me and the features they chose to do so with, were the commit GUI and the embedded terminal.

My best guess is that if you weren't a programmer, then you didn't use an IDE and there just wasn't many good editors on Windows. Like, Notepad++ has been there since forever, but it doesn't have that many features. And Sublime has been around for a long time, too, but never made it big.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Sublime was pretty big before Atom. Atom just had absolutely abysmal startup speeds. Using Atom like an IDE was fine because it stayed open but using it like an editor was awful. Code fixed those problems.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

The problem with Sublime is that it’s a paid one, and not everybody wants to pay for something that is perceived by the community as something that should be free and open source.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I do Rust and Go and VSCode has been fine for both so far. I put off trying it for ages out of a hatred/distrust of MS products, but I'm quite happy with it.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

What's even the point then?

The point is that you can enable each separate extension you want running on your code editor or uninstall them if you're unsatisfied. This makes it as light as you want it to be - or as heavy as you need it to.

I was doing fine with just vim and tmux

VSCode is like vim without vim controls and in a browser. Seen that way, it makes more sense. With Vim, you have to hunt for obscure Github repositories and follow arcane installation instructions for hidden extensions that you may or may not need and you have to learn a whole-ass keyboard-shortcut-based programming language just to use any of it.

With VSCode, you click on Extensions, search what you want and it'll probably be there unless it's a toxic ecosystem like PHP/C# or some niche ecosystem that no one heard about.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

This post reads like going to a Linux forum and asking for issues with the GTX660, which absolutely does not work on Linux: your concerns are legitimate and it's reasonable not to buy all the good comments on VS Code based on your personal experience. However, it works on my machine. And it also works for many others.

You also mention to have been doing fine with "just vim". I'd argue that you should face VS Code with the same humility you faced vim. If you're up to the task, take your time to learn its quirks just like you did with Vim's. Otherwise, you're better off ending your career with the toolsuite you know for now.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

nothing is working out of the box

I mean, it cannot fly you to the moon, but depends on what you're expecting.

If nothing works, did you install it via the manual?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I use jetbrains' PyCharm. Work paid for it. It does the things I want it to do (works with docker, git integration, local history, syntax highlighting for every language I use, refactor:rename and move, safe delete, find usages,.find declaration, view library code, database integration, other stuff I'm forgetting)

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

It's good for new, unrelated stuff. For example if you're just starting to work with python, or just want to test some project, its much easier to setup than nvim or emacs. I also like intellij idea. I think in terms of just works, it is much better. But it is more resource intensive

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

everyone and their mother uses VS Code

This is usually a good reason to avoid something. Especially if that something comes from Microsoft.

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[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I tried using VS Code but the fact that it's not fully open source (VSCodium has limitations) bothers me a lot, as does the presence of telemetry.

I like some of the convenience features, like having a file picker when you're writing paths, my students use it a lot, but I'm sticking with Kate.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Do not use Microsofts Telemetry Studio Code but Code-OSS or VSCodium.

See: https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/267

Regarding your question Code is not powerful enough of what we do at work. There we use IntelliJ IDEA. Our frontend guys use Code as it's enough for them and they usually are not that quality oriented, be it their tools or their product. Sadly mediocre is enough.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Honestly I don't care about telemetry. I'm not trying to start an argument about it, I'm just explaining to readers that there are still reasons to use VSCodium over Visual Studio Code. Visual Studio Code (the build available) masquerades as open source while having a non-FOSS license. https://code.visualstudio.com/license Also, Microsoft does not allow other programs (like VSCodium or Code - OSS) to access the Microsoft Visual Studio Marketplace. Being plugin based, that essentially means all useful functionality in Code-like editors is gated behind a proprietary website you aren't allowed to access except with a proprietary editor (Visual Studio Code). https://open-vsx.org/about

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

could you give a couple examples of how vscode degrades quality?

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this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2024
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