this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2024
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    [–] [email protected] 185 points 6 months ago (24 children)

    It's systemd+gnu+linux these days

    [–] [email protected] 148 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    Firefox+Plasma+Wayland+SystemD+GNU+Linux

    [–] [email protected] 26 points 6 months ago (1 children)
    [–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    That's something a human would say. Totally predictable.

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    [–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

    Eventually the proper name for the operating system will just be the full configuration.nix file, and we'll all rename our backups to "FullLegalName"OS

    In this future, NixOS replaces all other distros as the defacto standard way to manage packages

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    [–] [email protected] 49 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, systemd/GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, systemd plus GNU plus Linux. GNU/Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd init system made useful by the systemd daemons, shell utilities and redundant system components comprising a full init system as defined by systemd itself.

    Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd init system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called GNU/Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd init system, developed by the Red Hat.

    There really is a GNU/Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the init system they use. GNU/Linux is the os: a collection of programs that can be run by the init system. The operating system is an essential part of an init system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete init system. GNU/Linux is normally used in combination with the systemd init system: the whole system is basically systwmd with GNU/Linux added, or systemd/GNU/Linux. All the so-called GNU/Linux distributions are really distributions of systemd/GNU/Linux!

    [–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.

    Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.

    One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?

    (An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.

    Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.

    You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument.

    Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?

    If there is a moral buried in this rant, maybe it is this:

    Be grateful for your abilities and your incredible success and your considerable fame. Continue to use that success and fame for good, not evil. Also, be especially grateful for Linux' huge contribution to that success. You, RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and GNU software have reached their current high profiles largely on the back of Linux. You have changed the world. Now, go forth and don't be a nag.

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    [–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    I made the joke that we’ll have SystemD/Linux replacing GNU/Linux and the number of “well asckuallys…” that popped up was simultaneously humorous and saddening.

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    [–] [email protected] 160 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    wow, I could read and entire book of this. It's a new genre of erotica I think. Very high quality

    [–] [email protected] 64 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Do you want the pegging scenes to be implied or graphic?

    [–] [email protected] 37 points 6 months ago
    [–] [email protected] 29 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    Can it be implied that they're very graphic?

    [–] [email protected] 32 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    No, a real linux user only needs a cli

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    [–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago

    Parts of 4chan’s take on the Big Bang Theory may fit the bill:

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    [–] [email protected] 82 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Hnng yeah thats right womansplain to me, whip out those big beautiful FACTS and correct me till I BLEED

    [–] [email protected] 50 points 6 months ago (1 children)
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    [–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago

    You can bludgeon me to death with those facts baby

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    [–] [email protected] 52 points 6 months ago

    This is fucking gold

    [–] [email protected] 46 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    It would seem that GNU/Linux or Linux (whatever the user-accessing operating system is called) is the only OS that must mention its kernel. No one calls Windows the NT operating system, nor does anyone call Mac OS the Darwin operating system. So why should Linux be the exception?

    When I think of GNU, I think of a project that had a very particular goal in mind: build an operating system that replaces Unix with entirely free software. The project got nearly all the way there, but before they got a usable kernel working, Torvalds licensed his kernel with the GPL. With the Linux kernel combined with GNU, we have an OS the GNU project set out to create. So why should Torvalds get all the credit? Without calling the OS GNU, most people don't even know how or why it came to be.

    I could see a valid argument to just simply call the OS GNU. It was the name the original team gave the project to have a fully functional OS made with entirely free software. True, Torvalds didn't write Linux for GNU, but neither did the X Window System. A Kernel is essential for operation though, so I can see why the name GNU/Linux was proposed.

    [–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Maybe it just boils down to "Linux" simply sounding better when pronounced

    Just like e.g. most people just say "velcro" and not "hook-and-loop" as the company Velcro itself wants people to call it.

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    [–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    "The OS" doesn't exist. The operating systems you're talking about are called Debian, Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, RHEL, etc etc. The main work of making an actually usable OS from the various free software components others have written has always been done by the teams responsible for these products.

    But we still need a way to refer to them collectively, and it used to make sense to call them "Linux" because they were pretty much the only operating systems that used the Linux kernel, but now that Android is the most widely used OS on the planet, it doesn't anymore, and this alone is a reason to say GNU/Linux unless you want to include Android.

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    [–] [email protected] 38 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    A typical ActivityPub+Lemmy post.

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    [–] [email protected] 37 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Without the mention of mansplain and womansplain this would be funny

    [–] [email protected] 62 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

    I work in IT and sometimes I have to explain something to a user who is somewhat tech-illiterate. Even developers may have significant blind spots when it comes to their OS or networking, for example.

    So, if I notice it, I'll change some terminology and I may explain instructions differently or use metaphors so every user understands what I'm saying.

    And most coworkers do the same thing.

    Here's why I bring this up: For whatever reason, some colleagues give female coworkers the same treatment.

    And that's weird.

    If someone is constantly treated like this, they should be allowed to rant about it on their blog. I'm fine with snark if it geht's a point across.

    [–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    Is it bad if I tend to do this except to everyone because I don't generally expect people to know the same specific stuff as me?

    [–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    No. If it's everyone, then it's everyone and at worst it's not the most efficient way to communicate.

    I would say, if you single out a group of people based on physical characteristics, then it gets weird.

    But if it's "The internet won't start" vs "Every packet on port 433 is dropped even though no firewall rule is set", then I think it's reasonable to make some asumptions and adjust communication accordingly.

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    [–] [email protected] 30 points 6 months ago

    hey look its the guy from the meme

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    [–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    What's the deal with Alpine not using GNU? Is it a technical or ideological thing? Or is it another "because we can" type distro?

    [–] [email protected] 40 points 6 months ago

    All the core tools are actually a single executable with many symlinks to it, which makes the distro very compact. This makes it very nice as a base for Docker images.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox

    [–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    It's because we can to an extreme. Extremely lightweight distro. Very nice in containers and vms. One of the most loved ones out there.

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    [–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    I don't know if people use it on desktop but with its minimal size it's convenient as hell for docker images that don't need a lot of dependencies installed

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    [–] [email protected] 27 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    I usually see it referred to as GNU/Linux. I always consider Android as Android/Linux to differentiate it from desktop.

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    [–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago

    Laughs in LLVM-compiled kernel.

    [–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (19 children)

    Can someone explain to me why people get upset about it being referred to as gnu+Linux or gnu/Linux? I'm not the most techy person, so maybe I'm missing something obvious, but like, objectively, isn't it just as much gnu code as Linux?

    Again, not super techy, so please explain it to me like I'm the average Facebook aunt.

    [–] [email protected] 59 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    get upset about it being referred to as gnu+Linux or gnu/Linux

    I would say it's the opposite. Certain people get angry if you do not refer to it as GNU/Linux. These people used to be technically correct.

    GNU tried to rewrite Unix from scratch under the GNU GPL license. They view their copy left license (a license where if you incorporate any code under their license, you must release the code of your project as well) as morally superior. Their kernel didn't work out, but Linus Torvolds wrote another kernel for that GNU OS.

    Obviously, GNU wanted credit for the OS components that were not Linux. That's where the copypasta about "What you are using is in fact GNU+Linux..." came from. GNU is the heart of the free software movement so they have their fans as well that of course would also make that claim.

    Of course, as the meme in the OP suggests, you can now have a Linux distro that either does not use code owned by GNU or uses very little of their code. I would argue Ubuntu, Arch, etc still are technically GNU+Linux as they use GNU's C compiler, their C implementation, their userspace programs like Bash and grep, etc. However, Alpine uses alternatives to GNU software such as the musl C implementation.

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    [–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago (2 children)
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    [–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    Why are yall so mad about GNU and Free Software movement that it has started? Do you prefer to go to the old times? Apple microsoft fanboys?

    Doing an entire OS and library to not use GNU it's like Apple doing the LLVM to not having to use the GCC. Instead you could be helping in the free software movement and development, but you prefer to go into a GNU vs. Linux fight.

    The war should be all the free software movement vs the companies fake open source shit.

    [–] [email protected] 31 points 6 months ago

    This is a joke. Most people are not remotely concerned about these things.

    [–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    For real why are people so hyped about having less software built by people principled in protecting their freedoms?

    GNU and the FSF are awesome!

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    [–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago (2 children)
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    [–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago

    .....what?

    • Ricard Stallman.
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