this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 100 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (10 children)

This is a real world example of a question I've always had: if someone attempts to bribe you by giving you money up-front with the promise of more later, but, like in this instance, you turn around and report it, do you get to keep the money after reporting the attempted bribe?

The article says they handed it over to police (I'm assuming as evidence of a crime), but I'm wondering if there's any legal precedent for them getting the money back after the trial is over. It seems like it'd be advantageous to allow people to keep the money in cases like this.

If you're forced to relinquish the money, then there's an incentive for the juror to keep the money (at the risk of criminal charges) and you have to hope that the juror's sense of morality is able to overcome the cash temptation. $120k is a lot of money and would probably pose a significant moral dilemma for most people in this economy.

However, if the juror is allowed to keep it after the trial is over, then there's no downside for the juror to report it. There's no moral dilemma because they get to keep the cash for doing the right thing. If anything, there's an incentive for the juror to report it because then the cash is no longer illegal so there's no longer a criminal risk to keeping it and the prosecution gets evidence for another crime to hit the defense with. The alternative is keeping the cash at the risk of being caught and thrown in jail.

Edit: tried to rephrase the question to make it a bit clearer.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Someone willing to pay a juror a $120k bribe is probably also willing to kill a juror who takes the bag of cash and doesn't keep their end of the deal.

Keeping the money and not keeping the deal is a no-win for the juror. Best case scenario, you sleep on your $120k with one eye open for the rest of your stressed out life.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago

They're also the kind of people to kill you after you complete your end of the bargain and take the money back.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

I mean, is giving the money to the cops in a report, or even giving the money back, much safer? If they're offering bribe money, they clearly value your cooperation more than the money and so might not be willing to take no for an answer if you try to refuse or give it back in person. I guess with the reporting option, there's at least the fact that if something happens to you, it's going to look far more suspicious than if you were just someone the media and law enforcement had never heard of, so whoever gave the bribe risks even worse crimes potentially being tied to them with the murder.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

What do you think they'd do to someone who turns the money over and snitches? There's no available sure win.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago

That's why you give the cops one of the $120K bags you were bribed with, and keep the other two.

What are the bribers going to say, “hey, that's only a third of what I tried to bribe them with!”..?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Pretty sure the government keeps the money.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If the juror is allowed to keep the money after the trial if they report it, just means we will have open bribery of jurors.

"Yes, I got this $100,000 cashier check to vote guilty, so I'm going to vote not guilty to keep the $100,000"

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You let them keep it as a reward for doing the right thing and reporting, but you also replace them in the jury.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

So you can replace a juror of your choice for a bag of cash?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Apparently you can do that already since this juror was removed. Also it sounds expensive with very little reward

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Not to mention it involves directly implicating yourself in a new crime (or several, since it would be both bribery as well as jury tampering). And it would be more evidence of guilt.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Easy for me to say over a screen, but if I knew the person was guilty and it was a serious thing, I'd tell them to take that 120k and shove it up their ass, or better yet, do what this person did and call them out on their bullshit tactics.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I think the only downside to this is that if I had expendable cash already liquid so no paper trail, and I was a juror, and I wanted the defendant to get in even more trouble, I could claim the cash was a bribe and get it back with no risk. It would also make laundering money easier as any claim of bribery instantly cleans up the source of it. And if the designated grunt does his time and doesn’t talk, it never gets traced back to the source.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 5 months ago (7 children)

The juror should have said it was $100,000.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 5 months ago (2 children)

What, you mean this bag of 80k that somebody dropped at my door? No idea where it came from

[–] [email protected] 39 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm shocked that you'd think that any amount of money, even 60k, would get me to compromise my civic duty.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

40k is only a years salary for me so idk why they thought that would be anywhere near enough.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

This 20k would have really helped me out, but alas, morals.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Somebody suggested that I’d get some money, but I never did. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m late for an appointment at the Ferrari dealership.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This was all beautiful, thank you everyone that pulled through

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

You’re beautiful.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

120k is barely a down payment on a Ferrari.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Definitely not true for a sweet used one

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

How do they expect to sway a juror for only $5k?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago

Seriously? You expect me to compromise my morals for 50k?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Or just take the money and still prosecute and never mention the money.

Someone handed out $120,000? wow, I hope they find that money

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

I have a feeling that one would be swiftly dispatched in this sort of instance.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

The kinds of people that hand you $120,000 in exchange for criminal behavior aren't the kinds of people to just shrug their shoulders and be okay with you stealing it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Take it, gaslight yourself that it doesn't exist, finish the trial, buy a weeks worth of groceries

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Why assume it didn’t start as $250k before it got to the news?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I figure that once you admit to someone trying to bribe you, that someone's finances will probably be investigated, and if it seems like they really gave you bunch more and you lied about the amount, that's potential trouble for you.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 months ago

In a fraud trial

Chef's kiss

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago

There should be a law that states that if this happens and you turn them in then you get to keep the money.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Shouldn't the one person who absolutely should be on the jury be the person reporting a bribery attempt?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

No, because they're automatically biased against the defendant. The goal is no bias, regardless of reason.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Declining a bribe makes you automatically biased? Huh?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Yes.
Even if I believed someone were innocent, if someone attempted to purchase my vote, I would be personally offended, and immediately view the defendant as untrustworthy. It would bias my judgement.

The article states that the judge removed the jury member from the case and swapped in an alternate. The judge is also sequestering the jury, so they must spend the remainder of the case in a hotel - hopefully avoiding any other attempts to bias the jury.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

All I know is those horrible people are not guilty. Waiting for my bag of money any moment now.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Why do outsiders have access to jurors in the first place? Was the jury not sequestered?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

Sequestration is difficult for everyone, but it's most burdensome on the jurors themselves. It's usually avoided unless absolutely necessary.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

So the bribe was $240,000, you say?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The article is light on details around the actual cash itself but I have to wonder if it wasn't counterfeit. If you are, without any type of conversation, randomly trying to pay off jurors that seems like a lot of real money to just blindly throw at the problem and hope it goes away.

Even $5k or $10k could be a life-changing amount of money for some people, seems like it would be easier/cheaper to start there (if it's real) then promise more on a specific outcome.

It's not like your average person would be able to tell a real from a fake bill...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Your lawyers know quite a bit about the jurors, including economic status. You scale your bribes to the general income range.

C'mon, man... this is bribery 101.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

I flunked out of crime school and never got past remedial bribery.

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