this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024

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Why this GP wants employers to stop asking for medical certificates (www.abc.net.au)

submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

15 comments fedilink hide all child comments

[Dr] Max Mollenkopf estimates he sees two or three patients each day at his GP practice in Mulubinba/Newcastle who don't need treatment but require a medical certificate for work.

For employees, a trip to the doctor for a medical certificate can be time-consuming and costly, especially if your appointment isn’t bulk-billed.

Meanwhile, these appointments can take clinical time from people who are genuinely sick, Dr Mollenkopf says.

"If someone is sick and they want to see me, every day of the week I want them to be able to come in," he says.

"I didn't sign up to do medicine to do HR policy on behalf of large corporations."

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Genuine question. GPs complain about the complexity of cases increasing and therefore higher Medicare rates should apply. While I completely agree with this (my GP 1000% needs to be paid more), shouldn't that mean that they like low complexity visits like this? Bring someone in, sign med cert, you are on your way. They have probably spent 5-10mins of a 15min appointment and can use that time to catch up.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago

The overhead, in manhours, paperwork, and simply room-time doesn't go away for low/no complexity cases, it simply reduces available capacity for the practice. These are people who would, generally, just stay at home for a few days to recover normally and only engage with a doctor if the symptoms persisted, and are only in to see a doctor so they get that paper. A paper which only exists to prevent people from 'abusing' sick days.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It wastes an hour or more every day, for every GP. That's a huge waste of resources and unnecessary increase in demand, which means less availability for patients who are actually sick.

Believe it or not, most doctors actually want to help people rather than be a cog in some bureaucratic machine.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Isn't this the point of medical certificates from pharmacies? Except GPs don't like those either.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If the employee is frequently on sick leave and is required to produce paper, that's a trust issue. But if the manager can't recall when the employee was last ill yet still demands one, then they've shown they cannot distinguish trust from compliance.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Genuine question: can doctor's certificates be claimed on tax? They're a work related expense that you wouldn't seek otherwise.

Most workplaces that have demanded a cert from me i've just ignored. Two hour pay penalty for using my leave entitlement? Piss off.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I just scanned a digital copy one of my old medical certificates and edit the dates whenever I need a recent one.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think its not really a problem to seek proof and still get paid. There needs to be an element of trust, but the few that abuse that trust ruin it for everyone.

What we shouldn't be doing is wasting tax payer money on these certs. It should be a private appointment paid for by the conpanybthwt wants it with no rebate. I assume they won't be as necessary then.

I also thi k we should look at benefits like sick pay to be paid by government rather than employer. For large companies, it cones out in the wash but small companies are dying off and cash flow is probably the biggest issue they have.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Nah, fuck that. Sick pay is literally built into your contract as an entitlement. If you get it, your yearly salary as presented to you as your employment already accomodates x days sick, same as x days holidays. You can't 'abuse' it, if you run out of sick leave then it comes out of annual, or you don't get paid. There is no rort, it's already part of your farking salary.

[+] [email protected] -7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Yes, but you are not productive as an employee when unwell. Small business see their customers and employees face to face and for the most part treat them well. Some will fare better by lick as their employees will be less sick. Others will fare worse as they will have more sick employees. For a large company, it comes out in the wash.

What were doing is shifting the risk onto small businesses, which are already struggling to compete. Making it an even playing field is not the same as it being in your contract already. We could nationalize the risk and improve benefits. Its two different things. Its not like we need to have the taxpayer pay. We can already know the average cost and charge that through payroll tax or disability insuranfe which is already b required. So business is no worse off on average, no extra taxes and no fsffing with sock leave.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

I love hearing managers complain that managing people is difficult. That's your job and it costs what it costs. There's no need to subsidise all businesses.

It's the monopoly of large business that's screwing you, not sick leave.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I do not understand what you are saying here.

You either get paid sick leave as part of your salary entitlements or you do not

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm saying the salary entitlement does not have to change, or could change for the better. What could change isnthebsystem where it is employer regulated and managed, including them bearing the risk.

Youre entitled to superannuation too, but it goes to a super fund to manage. Currently if you get sick after starting a new job, youre SOL. If an employer hires an employee that ends up very sick, they are SOL.

It should not be hard to find the average amount of sick leave people use or need and what employers pay. We could also then extend something similar to casual workers who have no such entitlement currently.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

yeah this still isn't making sense in the context of what I said, or Australian labour laws.

literally, all employees in Australia except casual workers are entitled to paid sick and carers leave. That's federal law. It's 10 days for full time workers, pro-rata for part time. So when I say it's already baked into your salary, I literally mean that. They have already calculated for it in your wages.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

Yes, and I'm saying that calculation does not need to change.

A big chain like woolies could probably predict their worker illness quite accurately.

A small business with 5 employees could have 3 sock at once that ruins their cash flow.

Having that as a shared cost, similar to workers comp where the business pays but the employee benefits would help small businesses. They would have note even cash flow.

I understand how the labour laws work. I'm saying there is scope to improve them and extend them while improving competition. All the while, taking a burden off taxpayers whonpay for medicare and freeing up doctors time.

But, yeah, keep saying its baked in and there is no way we could possibly improve workplace sickness laws. The GPS say its bad already. Workers don't want to go to the doctor when they have a cold. Businesses don't want people pullign a Sickie and most of their colleagues don't want to pick up the slack for workers who are no show.