this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
433 points (98.0% liked)

politics

19072 readers
4821 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 141 points 8 months ago (4 children)

The SCOTUS and other institutions will not save democracy.

This bears repeating. The SCOTUS and other institutions will not save democracy.

Institutions are corruptible. SCOTUS has been corrupted. That is where the US is.

Only citizen action can safeguard democracy.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Yeah. People don't seem to understand that once the fascists have stacked the highest court, it's game over for the justice system and any semblance of due process. The rule of law is dead. They succeeded in killing it.

Once the fascists have seized control of all 3 branches of government? No amount of voting, protesting, or peaceful demonstration is likely to improve the situation — at that point the only way to restore democracy is through armed revolution and civil war.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Or wait for the dictator to die like Salazar in Portugal. But 1) that would really suck and I don’t want to live thru all those oppressive years, and 2) Salazar was actually competent and could achieve beneficial things for his country.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I read recently a comment that said "The only people who think favorably about SCOTUS are people who remember the Warren Court."

Now I'm not that old, but I think there's a lot of truth in that. SCOTUS got a lot of goodwill from the Warren Court for making progressive, popular, and legally sound rulings. Now people are surprised that under Roberts, the Court has returned to its more-often-than-not pro-business, pro-Christofascist, anti-everything-that-isn't-rich-white-men leanings.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Exactly. We had a momentary bubble of peace.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Safeguard? It's over if you ask me. We might as well start planning out our revolution already.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Worse: the SCOTUS started the civil war and later legitimized segregation.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (1 children)

the Roberts court is the Bribery and Treason Court. It may also earn the honor of being the Last Court.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Don't be absurd, fascists love courts.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

it'll be The Wall all over again

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Oh they'll build something else to take its place, but there's no way SCotUS will survive the Trump takeover. Too long a tradition of people who can tell him "no" and he can't do anything about it. They'll be wiped and replaced illegally.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

The era of the Great Society is over. We are now entering the era of the Federalist Society.

Bring a flashlight, it will get dark.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (11 children)

Yeah, dangerous thing to pass though.

If a state can choose disqualify, Texas, Florida and PA can choose to disqualify the democratic candidates on trumped up unqualified charges

Need to be super careful with this one, it cuts both ways.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 8 months ago (5 children)

It’s not a new law, it’s in the constitution. He cannot hold office, and there’s no need for a conviction. He participated.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

You are absolutely correct. However, we cannot trust republicans to not abuse precedent where one exists.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Only if you equate an openly obvious case of Insurrection and attempting to overthrow an election to the GOP going 'lol ban Dems' with no actual charges.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't equate it but do you think for a second that Florida wouldn't?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

I think they'll do that regardless of what we do so we might as well do what the law says.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You don't though, because the case will still rise to the Supreme Court and be shot down for being bullshit. If they get on board with disqualifying candidates for trumped up charges, then we have a constitutional crisis, but just because one state court's opinion is validated doesn't mean other courts just get the ability to disqualify at will.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

If disqualifying candidates based on false pretences is a "constitutional crisis", why isn't THIS inverse — restoring an insurrectionist to the ballot — a "constitutional crisis"?

At this point "constitutional crisis" just sounds like another fantasy guard rail "check" or "balance" that people view as a turning point or line in the sand, but in reality everyone will just accept the fascist takeover and act like things aren't bad enough to do anything about it yet...

I swear, if they shit all over our freedoms 13 or 14 more times, they're gonna regret the numerous times they shat all over us and we did nothing!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

the states all already have disparate requirements regarding how to get on the ballot: filing deadlines, petition signatures, write in eligibility… How is “verifying against constitutional requirements” any different?

By the logic of that decision, states must allow young candidates to run on the ballot, even if they would not be 35 by the inauguration date, because that is a constitutional requirement that can only be enforced at the federal level.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

And foreign-born candidates. In fact, if "shall" means "must be enforced by congress," you don't even have to be a US citizen at all.

Obviously such a candidate could be disqualified by congress, but states apparently have no right to disqualify such a candidate themselves.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (5 children)

If they have legal reason to- they’re welcome to try it. Don’t make this out that they can remove innocent people from the ballots.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

if Trump gets back in they're going to Navalny their opponents.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You know, I was under the impression that refusing to do the right thing because you're scared of the consequences was the definition of cowardice.

The fact that SCOTUS decided that letting a literal insurrectionist stay in the ballot, rather than make the legally and morally correct decision, only because it would mean they'd have to smack down Texas, Florida, et al, later, makes them cowards.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

> I was under the impression that refusing to do the right thing because you’re scared of the consequences was the definition of cowardice.

gonna have to remember this one

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

You don't need to be any more careful than when enforcing the rules on place of birth, age, or term limits.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The states have always had that choice, with due process, to disqualify candidates. Colorado disqualified a candidate in 2012, and Gorsuch was one of the judges that ruled in favor of Colorado.

Hassan v Colorado, 2012

as the magistrate judge’s opinion makes clear and we expressly reaffirm here, a state’s legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office. See generallyMunro v. Socialist Workers Party, 479 U.S. 189, 193-95 (1986); Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 145 (1972).

The judgment of the district court is affirmed. Appellant’s motion for publication is denied.

Entered for the Court
Neil M. Gorsuch Circuit Judge

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I agree, but if they expicitly stated it was on the grounds of insurrection I think it would have set a good precedent.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They voted that the states aren't allowed to execute it. It needs to come from Congress. He should be off the ballot everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Which is why this was dumb. My statement was saying it could have been a good thing. But we live in the timeline where Wonka doesn't make fucken Wonka bars and everything is shit so the traitor stays on the ballot.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

You seem to gloss over that CO was fully justified. Further SCOTUS did not invalidate the finding that Trump participated in an insurrection.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

they could have easily put road blocks on it such as "must be under federal prosecution for or convicted of specific crimes or actively battling federal troops under lawful orders."

Another twinge in the gears is that even if Biden pardoned Trump, Trump should still be unable to run for president under the constitution.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Like I said it needs to be very carefully implemented.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

....a retired lawyer has a strong opinion. Shocking.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The title makes it sound like the judge was in favour of trump, while it's the opposite

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

No. It might sound like that to someone with zero context tho.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

who isn't in favour of dangerous betrayal though, seriously

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, without further context to me it sounds like it's saying that supreme court betrayed democracy by disqualifying trump

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

The further context of one of the most published Court decisions in a decade that you could read about in the article of you were still out of the loop?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Retired federal judge J. Michael Luttig issued a searing rebuke of the Supreme Court’s unanimous decision that Colorado could not disqualify former President Trump from the ballot under the 14th Amendment’s insurrection ban, preserving his ability to seek a second term.

Voters and advocacy groups had filed dozens of challenges to Trump’s ballot eligibility in states across the country, claiming his actions surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack triggered his disqualification.

The high court sided with Trump by ruling Congress has exclusive authority to enforce the 14th Amendment to disqualify federal candidates.

Luttig, who had been vocal in support of the Colorado Supreme Court’s decision to bar Trump from the ballot, described Section 3 of the 14th Amendment as the Constitution’s “safety net for America’s democracy, promising to automatically disqualify from public office all oath-breaking insurrectionists against the Constitution, deeming them too dangerous to entrust with power unless supermajorities of both houses of Congress formally remove their disability.”

The Supreme Court has now rendered that safety net a dead letter, effectively rescinding it as if it had never been enacted,” Luttig wrote.

He continued, “That the disqualification clause has not previously been invoked to keep traitors against the Constitution from having a second opportunity to fracture the framework of our republic reflects not its declining relevance but its success at deterring the most dangerous assaults on our government until now.”


The original article contains 462 words, the summary contains 230 words. Saved 50%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

load more comments
view more: next ›