this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
433 points (98.0% liked)

politics

19097 readers
4807 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (11 children)

Yeah, dangerous thing to pass though.

If a state can choose disqualify, Texas, Florida and PA can choose to disqualify the democratic candidates on trumped up unqualified charges

Need to be super careful with this one, it cuts both ways.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 7 months ago (2 children)

It’s not a new law, it’s in the constitution. He cannot hold office, and there’s no need for a conviction. He participated.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

You are absolutely correct. However, we cannot trust republicans to not abuse precedent where one exists.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Only if you equate an openly obvious case of Insurrection and attempting to overthrow an election to the GOP going 'lol ban Dems' with no actual charges.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don't equate it but do you think for a second that Florida wouldn't?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I think they'll do that regardless of what we do so we might as well do what the law says.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You don't though, because the case will still rise to the Supreme Court and be shot down for being bullshit. If they get on board with disqualifying candidates for trumped up charges, then we have a constitutional crisis, but just because one state court's opinion is validated doesn't mean other courts just get the ability to disqualify at will.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If disqualifying candidates based on false pretences is a "constitutional crisis", why isn't THIS inverse — restoring an insurrectionist to the ballot — a "constitutional crisis"?

At this point "constitutional crisis" just sounds like another fantasy guard rail "check" or "balance" that people view as a turning point or line in the sand, but in reality everyone will just accept the fascist takeover and act like things aren't bad enough to do anything about it yet...

I swear, if they shit all over our freedoms 13 or 14 more times, they're gonna regret the numerous times they shat all over us and we did nothing!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Because someone somewhere would have to make insurrection charges stick. They've completely failed at that. This whole thing is political theatre like you read about 70s USSR. Idk is gonna win but it's a knives out battle like Kruschkev n Gorbachev won.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Al lot of charges have "stuck" hence why Trumple has offered to pardon everyone when he wins.

You don't need to go to another country for an example when you can just look at the US. McCarthyism is the political theatre you are talking about. The Red Scare and ruining countless peoples lives over made up bullshit.

This ain't made up. The sexual assaulter did not concede willingly and fomented an insurrection however dumb or ineffective it was.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

the states all already have disparate requirements regarding how to get on the ballot: filing deadlines, petition signatures, write in eligibility… How is “verifying against constitutional requirements” any different?

By the logic of that decision, states must allow young candidates to run on the ballot, even if they would not be 35 by the inauguration date, because that is a constitutional requirement that can only be enforced at the federal level.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

And foreign-born candidates. In fact, if "shall" means "must be enforced by congress," you don't even have to be a US citizen at all.

Obviously such a candidate could be disqualified by congress, but states apparently have no right to disqualify such a candidate themselves.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If they have legal reason to- they’re welcome to try it. Don’t make this out that they can remove innocent people from the ballots.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

if Trump gets back in they're going to Navalny their opponents.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Don’t make this out that they can remove innocent people from the ballots.

You make a good point, but what prevents this?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

It was supposed to be SCOTUS

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You’ve just discovered the fundamental problem with democracy: it operates on good faith in a Machiavellian world.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Machiavelli was satire. It was meant to show the stupidest way to do things.

Most people aren't like that. We just haven't found a good way to rid ourselves of psychopaths and narcissists.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You know, I was under the impression that refusing to do the right thing because you're scared of the consequences was the definition of cowardice.

The fact that SCOTUS decided that letting a literal insurrectionist stay in the ballot, rather than make the legally and morally correct decision, only because it would mean they'd have to smack down Texas, Florida, et al, later, makes them cowards.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

> I was under the impression that refusing to do the right thing because you’re scared of the consequences was the definition of cowardice.

gonna have to remember this one

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

....you have to remember the literal fucking definition of cowardice ?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

which lexicographer recorded this phrasing

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The states have always had that choice, with due process, to disqualify candidates. Colorado disqualified a candidate in 2012, and Gorsuch was one of the judges that ruled in favor of Colorado.

Hassan v Colorado, 2012

as the magistrate judge’s opinion makes clear and we expressly reaffirm here, a state’s legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office. See generallyMunro v. Socialist Workers Party, 479 U.S. 189, 193-95 (1986); Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 145 (1972).

The judgment of the district court is affirmed. Appellant’s motion for publication is denied.

Entered for the Court
Neil M. Gorsuch Circuit Judge

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago

You don't need to be any more careful than when enforcing the rules on place of birth, age, or term limits.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I agree, but if they expicitly stated it was on the grounds of insurrection I think it would have set a good precedent.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They voted that the states aren't allowed to execute it. It needs to come from Congress. He should be off the ballot everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Which is why this was dumb. My statement was saying it could have been a good thing. But we live in the timeline where Wonka doesn't make fucken Wonka bars and everything is shit so the traitor stays on the ballot.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

You seem to gloss over that CO was fully justified. Further SCOTUS did not invalidate the finding that Trump participated in an insurrection.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

they could have easily put road blocks on it such as "must be under federal prosecution for or convicted of specific crimes or actively battling federal troops under lawful orders."

Another twinge in the gears is that even if Biden pardoned Trump, Trump should still be unable to run for president under the constitution.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Like I said it needs to be very carefully implemented.