I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice
Came here to post this, so I'll do this one instead
But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling. The white liberals are more dangerous than the conservatives; they lure the Negro, and as the Negro runs from the growling wolf, he flees into the open jaws of the "smiling" fox.
MLK, a true Chad for true justice.
every white person on earth needs that quote tattooed on the inside of their eyelids
Sadly wont work because Conservatives unironically believe this quote means that MLK likes them.
Thank god my eyes are bigger then my stomach.
The reason that libs annoy me so much is because they think they know what's best for me. Conservatives don't give a shit about what's best for me and they aren't afraid to tell me. They want what's best for them and who cares about me. That's easy to understand and easy to just ignore.
But the libs. The libs pretend they want what's best for me. They don't want to listen to me say what's best for me though they want to tell me, prescriptively, what's best for me without having any context by which they could have any clue what's best for me. They just "know" it because they have a PhD or it's common sense or they read about it in the Atlantic or whatever the fuck things libs do. They never want to listen to what the people who the claim to want to help actually say will help them. It's maddening.
I've heard right-wing people say the same about socialists and communists, though. Especially ones with family from communist areas, like Cuba, or the former Soviet block will say, "socialists think it will be good but they've never been there to know how bad it is." If you bring up sanctions or something, they'll just say you're diminishing their family's lived experience. Some conservative Americans will say the same thing if some European criticizes them for not having universal healthcare. "Sure it works over there, but not over here where there's too much diversity. You just don't know our local experience", blah blah blah. Just saying, it's easy language to co-opt and people don't always know what's good for them lol.
Libs, on the other hand, are just in an indefinite cycle of spouting bad takes that enable oppression, but due to ignorance, they think they're actively helping fight against it.
god I just remembered the kneeling with cops "protests" from Liberals during the actual George Floyd riots in 2020
Just to add on to what you said, but tying it with the bit from OP you quoted.... I don't think that was ignorance or them thinking they were actually helping fight against oppression. It was purely a performance to try to co-opt the liberation movement and remove its teeth in order to render it harmless. They weren't being good-intentioned but stupid, they weren't thinking they were "actively helping fight oppression" just in an ineffective way, rather they were using that pretense as a tactic to fight for oppression in a way that benefits them. And it was effective.
Reverse Hanlon's razor.
Youre probably around liberals more often than chuds tbf
I'm surrounded by hogs for the majority of my life and yet I still find liberals infinitely more insufferable than a majority of them
Because conservatives will say shit like "I don't hate black people I have a black friend." It's abhorrent racist bullshit but it's vaguely honest even though their clumsy line about an exception here or there is probably a lie. Having a bad lie is just a scenic way to telling the truth.
Liberals will say shit like "I don't hate poor people I have a friend that used to be poor." It's that subtle twist that makes your skin crawl.
If you invite two friends to your party and one says "I'm not coming" and the other says "I'm just running late" but never shows up which of the two disappointed you the most?
Yeah when I was radicalized I reached a point where I had to stop listening to NPR because I would yell at the radio while I was driving. Never reached that point with chud talk radio, I just stopped listening because I eventually realized there was no point. It didn't make me viscerally angry the way the ostensibly nuanced liberals did.
I mostly stopped too, but "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" always hooks me
I just watched a video basically saying this from "Second Thought", calling American liberals "The most dangerous thing in the western hemisphere". https://youtu.be/33p-8QHZpzY?si=uWb0rns_wiWD-Nqs
But for me, yeah, it's like, I know what to expect from conservatives and don't give their words a whole lot of weight, but when people you think are your allies spout horrible stuff, that just hurts more.
Conservatives seem to be more overt in their political positions and when they have false beliefs that back up their political positions, it usually isn't wrapped up in smug condescension where they expect you to immediately fall in line and admire how moral their position is. There's just much less pretense and hypocrisy with conservatives imo.
A conservative will hate trans people because they don't like queers and some will even outright say as much. Others will do the whole "protect the children" schtick.
But a progressive will tell you that they support trans people while posting that genderqueer-coded Putin in makeup image without a moment's reflection and if you ask what Biden has done to actively protect the rights of trans people, they'll go on a spiel about how Trump is worse and the Democrats would have done something if only they held a majority in the government and if only they actually bothered to fucking appoint Supreme Court judges when they had the opportunity to (including putting RBG out to pasture before she kicked the bucket).
Progressives have a huge entitlement complex and they feel like they're entitled to your vote, your admiration, your support, and your recognition of their moral superiority.
They give me the ick.
I'd rather deal with someone who just outright says that they hate migrants from South America rather than people who start personally attacking me and making accusations and excuses and tortured ideological justifications for why Trump's concentration camps at the border were detestable but Biden's ones are totally permissible.
I'd rather deal with a person who says "I hate you and everything you stand for - I am in opposition to you" while they fuck me over than I would a person who tries to pretend that they're my friend, that they're doing the right thing, and that they aren't fucking me over while they fuck me over. And worse still is they aren't just pretending that, they actively try and convince me of it and they get outraged at me if I don't buy into it.
Progressives, except for the ones who are verging on becoming baby leftists, are really fucking sleazy imo.
It's worse because of the insidious nature of liberals, danger unknown is worse than danger known
To quote famous socialist philosopher Riddick "It's always the punch you don't see coming that puts you down"
For me they've always been more annoying.
Conservatives can be mask-off hateful and make it easy to hate them back. Liberals lean heavily into their attempted guilt trips and the presumption of being on the side of oppressed people while doing everything they can to support the major oppressive systems.
We hate them for the same reasons the chuds do— they’re hypocritical, smug, condescending, and firmly in the pockets of capital. They are the enemy.
I agree with others in this thread, although I think it's worth noting that conservatives and socialists don't have much reason at all to interact with each other. What is the point?
Liberals at least pretend to be progressive, and we call them out on their bullshit and then they get mad, and so on.
Plus, a lot of the "more extreme" (by lib standards) communities on Reddit for example have been purged (us included) and they mostly interact with each other for the more part (like on hexbear, or in the case of the right on patriots dot win)
So all that being said, of course libs annoy us more, they are the primary shitheads who we interact with in social spaces both online and off.
Searing hot take but your average maga brainlet is closer to us than an average self described liberal.
Maga is wrought by experiencing material conditions in the US but having no coherent ideological framework to describe them (along with a reflexive aversion to communism).
If you can find a way to introduce the theory, and there are many entry points— getting fucked by the boss, the depravity of the deep state, politicians only benefiting the rich etc. they can be brought around. they at least see and acknowledge that there are serious underlying problems
You will never convert a “progressive” liberal, they have it too good
This by the way is why the democrats are turning into “the party of people who went to college” as Matt C put it
I think for many of us, part of why they’re so annoying is because once upon a time we were them.
Skill issue, didn't have this problem 
To build on that, I think it's because "we" actively challenged and continued to grow our understanding to better fit the values held as a liberal. To us, the path out of liberalism is clear if you're willing to really hold true to values like freedom for all and a sensible form of governance.
The contractions are everywhere, and instead of doing anything to show they do sincerely believe what they say, they make excuses or expend no effort to try and make their beliefs a reality. They'd rather blame everyone to their left and right after doing their one act to effect change, voting, than challenge themselves and their institutions.
Ultimately I think having someone who pretends to care about the same things as you be such obstinate shitheads is much more bothersome than someone who doesn't. Stolen valor or something
People who are evil and open about it are less annoying than people who are evil but affix a self-righteous mask to their hideous face
It really depends on if you mean liberal establishment, or the ordinary level of liberalism that exists in all members of our society, of which most politically uneducated people are going to be "libs" perjoratively, but not libs generally. At some point or another, the majority does have to be engaged. :/
The establishment (the state?) is super fucking annoying and smug and seems to be unable to reckon with any critique. I've noticed they only respond to people who insult them with "ah, an ad hominem I see" and never the longer more conversational/academic responses.
Don't feel bad, they hate us more than fascists so it balances out.
Both equally bad because they're both liberals that love licking the boots of capital and imperialism.
I propose a middle ground and posit that self declared centrists/"apolitical" are the most annoying. Centrists have all of the mask off bigotry of the more open chuds with all of the gaslighting that they're not racist as the demonrat radlib types.
There's a point there. At least "left" libs are trying, sometimes, to be good people, however misguided they may be. Centrists on the other hand act like they're so much smarter and wiser than everybody else for sitting on the fence in the Hitler vs. polite Hitler debate. Insufferable pricks the lot of them.
I know it gets invoked a lot, but MLK Jr.'s quote on white moderates is just as relevant as ever when it comes to the ideological divide between libs and chuds.
"Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
I fucking hate em so much
Right there with you. Liberals are liars. I hear em talking and i get ptsd cuz they sound like every upper middle manager that brought "the team" together to tell us how the company didn't make enough to give us raises this year. That fucking smile. That fucking tone.
I hate em
it comes and goes. I tend to hate the ones I have to deal with and are exposed to most often. At various points in my life that has been liberals, at other points it's conservatives. They're all shitty though.
Ya I have a feeling it's because people in this thread interact with libs more or something. I have to interact with lots of conservatives at my work, and let me tell you, it's sooooo aggravating. So this take surprises me, but I guess when I look at it that way, it makes sense.
"I support trans rights, but they shouldn't play sports with women"
This reminds me of the "I hate men, but trans men are fine!" shit that a lot of libs do when it comes to feminism.
So many trans men get really alienated by that sense of suffering to a point where they'd rather you hate them for their manhood too.
A right wing conservative is like a moustache-twirling villain tying damsels to the train tracks while cackling. They're out there in the open.
A "progressive" liberal is like a
sociopath who expertly wears a mask of respectability to integrate himself to be one of the most trusted members of society. He runs the charity at the children's hospital and all the parents love him and if he ever gets found out everyone will just be shocked because he seemed like such a caring, genuine personspoiler
serial child rapist
This is very similar to a behavioral pattern dogs exhibit called barrier frustration.
Say a dog really wants to go meet another dog, but it is on a leash and so can't reach the dog to go say hi. The dog will often act with what might look like aggression: barking, straining at the leash, etc. But it is actually not being aggressive toward the dog. It is frustrated by the leash preventing it from getting there. The dog doesn't act aggressively toward the person holding the leash either. It just rages aimlessly against its tether.
You see what I'm getting at? We're often more mad at the leash that stops us from getting what we want than we are at the one holding it. Liberals act as an extension of the right by keeping Leftists from their goals, but we should still remember that the right itself is the primary enemy and Liberals, ultimately, are more concerned with maintaining the status quo than they are about upholding any particular set of beliefs.
Liberals love liberalism. Conservatives hate liberalism. So in that narrow view we have more to talk about with one group than the other.
conservatives love liberalism. conservatives are liberals who hate gay and brown people a bit more and a bit more explicitly than self-declared liberals
let's use the actual words' definitions instead of whatever the heck liberal or conservative has been redefined to mean in the United States
Liberals tend to do white collar work while conservatives tend to be blue collar. I know there are plenty of exceptions and other factors that go into a person’s political beliefs (a cis white engineer will probably be fascist; a Black plumber (they exist) will probably be more on the left). Restaurant owners are usually liberals; landlords and business owners involved in direct resource extraction (farmers, fishermen) are usually conservatives. The work liberals do requires them to at least appear to be less racist on the surface. As nonprofit employees they are often exploiting blue collar workers and small business owners (via the tax breaks their nonprofit gets for instance); one purpose of nonprofits is to make capitalism look less shitty, which results in libs sometimes joining good protests but then kneeling with cops and telling people to stop “stealing” from Target. Conservatives are either surrounded by white people or are directly exploiting people of color. But again, everything is so mixed up and contradictory in the USA that there are many exceptions.
To reiterate @[email protected]'s point, both of those cultural tendencies are liberal, they are just liberalism with different pretensions. One is liberalism with a pretention towards 'fairness and realism' (conservative) the other is a pretension towards 'equality and justice' (liberal), neither of them delivers on their point because like liberalism is just about preserving aristocratic rights for businesses and business owners, it's not actually about individual rights, freedoms or justice.
These observations are only strictly true in North America. For example, the Australian major "center" right party is the Liberal Party. The Brazilian Liberal Party is right wing. The Liberal Party in Sweden is considered conservative, etc etc.
Libs more annoying than conservatives? You mean 'progressive' pro-west libs more annoying than con pro-west libs ('right-libertarians')?
Indeed...
When all their reformist progressive dribble runs out, they're merely just a liberal that wants to merely reform the status quo, and you feel betrayed when this veil is removed off them....
But as @[email protected] said, centrists are more annoying...
Republicans tie you down to the track. Democrats lie on the track and criticize you for squirming, trying to untie the ropes, because they believe someone will rescue the damsel in distress
but racism and transphobia from libs now seems significantly more abhorrent.
The tyranny of low expectations...
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank