this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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39
escaping the trolley dilemma (lemmy.cafe)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
33 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The US primaries and the general election are two different things. Voting uncommitted in the primary expresses support for the Palestinian plight and does not give Republicans any ground.

The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.

That being said, anyone who calls for an uncommitted or third-party vote in the general election I will personally kick in the gender neutral balls (in Minecraft).

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Considering there is no meaningful challenge, the ONLY useful purpose a primary serves is to take the temperature of the party itself and allow it to signal if there are cracks in the base or policies that aren't resonating outside the head office.

If we're just going to have a sham election with 115% turnout and 170% approval vote, why waste the money?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

As long as there is hope i will vote Democrat in the general. But man, forcing the ambassador to veto a cease fire was a swift kick in the hope sack

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

first paragraph is a fair assessment

not sure what you are referring to with the second part? i feel out of the loop on something (edit: i now know what you are referring to and i unequivocally disagree. skipping elections in the name of cost savings is almost the worst possible option.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If there's no second candidate who could win, and everyone is railroaded into a unity response, it seems like a dubious third-world election, where you sometimes see dubious numbers like that.

Since election operations cost money; we could save a few bucks just anointing Biden today, if we don't intend to actually parse the primary results to figure out the electorate's needs.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

…….no!? lmao?! pls tell me you are joking

if anything that would make the election more anti-democratic, fascist and (to use your word) third-world. to what, assume the winner of an election and skip it? that is, emphatically, absurd.

the reason the incumbent always sweeps in their party is already to save money. because it’s more or less pointless for the party to compete against itself when they already have the person they elected in office.

but it’s still important that the primary happen because a) it’s a safety in case the politician turns out to be bad faith and not represent the wishes of the party (this happened with George Santos iirc) or b) in the very case of this post, where Democratic voters are expressing dissatisfaction with the candidate but do not want to risk a Republican win.

this is kind of basic US politics, so if you are just hearing about this, no worries. you are wrong and i don’t want to dog on you for that but you might want to do some research and listen to some more experienced leftist commentary. i won’t claim to be the best place to get this info.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm hopeful, in a sick kind of sense, that the horrors of the war in Gaza will break Israel's stranglehold on US politics.

They... really have just gone mask off.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As much as I'd like to think so, I think that the US is just going to go mask off, too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I'm hopeful. I was exceptionally skeptical at the start of this that it would change any large number of opinions in the US, because fuck, it's been long-ongoing and the Israelis had the convenient excuse of responding to a terror attack.

But public opinion is shifting much faster than I thought it would as this draws on. We may finally be able to break the Israeli grip on US politics it's had since the 80s.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

All the best political cartoons are chockablock with text. For real though, appreciate the effort.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

thanks i wouldn’t really label this a cartoon tho since im intentionally coming at this with the goal of nuance. more of a psa or breakdown post.

my earlier posts on this same position were simpler and immediately devolved into name calling and misinformation in the comments so that this one hasn’t yet i consider a win

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I wanna get better at GIMP because there's some good ideas for political cartoons, but I can't draw 😔

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

i believe in you! also krita is open source and better than gimp for creative stuff

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Holy shit I did not know it was possible to fit this much mental illness into a single meme.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

thank you i try ❤️

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Godspeed, I hope it gets better.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

some people think so

And yet they never have an action plan. Curious.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Turns out you can lie about there being no action plan if you ignore all the action planning going on. Curious. 🐛

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There are other people yo vote for than these two, you know?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Explain to me FPTP

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Can someone explain to me why there isn't a third track? If we're so fucking concerned about the threat of another Trump presidency then why aren't we all registering Republican and making someone else win the primary?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because tracks don't appear out of thin air. For all the people screaming "where's the third track?," it is never going to appear unless those people start building tracks before the train arrives at the junction.

The time to start talking about and working to legitimize a third-party candidate isn't the election cycle; that work has to be done in advance.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm not suggesting spinning up a third party, just wondering why reasonable people don't see the opportunity to register Republican and give Trump the boot. I gave it a shot, but it seems like no one else had the same idea.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

The problem is that it would have to be an entire movement. And you’d need to all back the same non-Trump candidate. Without that unity it’s spinning wheels in the mud.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

First past the post with single member districts is why there isn't a third option

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

don’t think i can do your first question justice (though looking up the spoiler effect is a good start) but for the second:

such manipulation of the primary, while theoretically possible and legal (not a lawyer), would take massive concentrated effort and messaging (and therefore money) to coordinate successfully, and would be entirely unprecedented. the system is broken, yes, but is generally foolproof enough to make such manipulation impractical in the real world.

edit: another fact i forgot to mention. it’s almost certainly too late as the primaries are well on their way and complete in some states.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It doesn't take any money or coordination to decide to vote for someone other than Trump in the Republican primary, and anyone can do it. Apparently voting for Biden or 'noncommitted' in the not-really-contested Democratic primary was a higher priority than resisting fascism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

…? no. flat out wrong.

you are asking millions to entirely change their voter registration to a different party and then unanimously pick one candidate that is better than Trump and win.

to communicate that would cost more in funds than the Republican party spends in campaign advertising altogether.

the “uncommitted” movement works because it doesn’t have to be unanimous; only a handful have to do it to be effective

[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Is changing your party affiliation difficult or cumbersome in other states? I did it in about three minutes, wasn't a big deal at all.

If millions of people did the same, they wouldn't need to vote for the same candidate, just anyone but Trump. Literally anyone else they could vote for would be an improvement, even if they went on to win the general.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

ok go for it lol. try to convince millions of voters to become republicans on paper. better have a good candidate who is running as well. oh and you might want to have a plan for the states who have already selected their nominees.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

This is why there's no third track

https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=Q-eUT8JxqNh0Rpjl