A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
The new place for c/[email protected]
This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Date Created: June 21, 2023
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No. That sounds like wage theft. If my boss pulled something like that I'd be on the phone with my state's department of labor so freakin' fast. If you worked the hours they have to pay you for it.
Even if it weren't illegal, it'd be a big flashing neon sign saying, "We will screw you over every chance we get, and you will be nothing but miserable working here."
Security deposit had me reeling. This was written by a moron trying to form legal words and failing
No, this both uncommon and illegal (assuming it's from the US). They're trying to couch their wage theft in legal jargon to scare the unwitting into accepting it
Others have heavily covered the legality portion of this but I want to point out one other key factor: any employer that tries to pull this kind of shit clearly has a significant employee retention problem, and they're trying to fix it by trapping their employees financially rather than getting to the root of the problem.
Refuse to sign this agreement and find another job. If they let you join without signing this agreement keep applying elsewhere because you'll almost certainly learn very quickly why they have such a bad employee retention problem
Or sign it, work a few days, and quit. Then report to the state and sue.
That's probably only worth if your state has damages above and beyond what's stolen from you; otherwise a lot of life hassle for a shitty job, which is what the deal was in the first place
You don't have to ask us. Contact your state's attorney general and/or workforce commission directly. They'll know.
Edit: I speculate not. For one, my general understanding is "time worked is time paid." You cannot be deducted pay for the cost of, for instance, mistakes.
For two, I don't think a contract that doesn't benefit you in any way is enforceable.
Edit3: The legal term I was thinking of here was Unconscionability
You might start clandestinely recording conversations with your supervisors if that's legal in your state, just in case they try to pull some "off the record" shenanigans when/if you blow the whistle.
Edit2: There is a pretty good voice recording app in the fdroid repository. I've used "Simple Voice Recorder" from there, picked up good audio through my pants pocket, but your phone will vary and you should test the ability to record surreptitiously vs clearly before the recording is needed.
FYI: All the Simple Mobile Tools apps were sold to a really scummy company. The good news is the open source community forked them and they are now known as Fossify.
Itβs blatantly illegal, and the fact that they were dumb enough to put it in writing means you have a slam dunk case for your local department of labor. File a complaint, and let the DoL take it from there; The entire department exists to deal with bullshit like this, but they only act on complaints.
Yup, this is highly illegal, and I'll bet as soon as they crack open this company's books, they'll start finding all sorts of OTHER illegal shit. Companies dumb enough to put this in writing are also dumb enough to not stop at committing one crime at a time.
Nope, that's illegal.
As many have said, this is not legal if you are in the US. You can, and should, file a complaint online. Here is the process: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
Russians have been know to burn places down as a form of protest.
I don't know why that just popped into my head.
Check out my ornamental slicing machine. It's from France.
Sorry, totally brain fart. You were saying?
Very much illegal where I live.
Not to mention, if the company has to implement such practices, it means it has a problem retaining staff.
If it has problems retaining staff and solves it not by addressing the underlying issues but by extortion, why would you work for such a company? Their management is clearly incompetent.
No. It is legal and usual to pay in arrears (you work 2 weeks then get your check a week later) but it's not legal (even here in Florida where workers have few protections) to withhold pay for hours worked. That's wage theft, and it's epidemic in the United States.
What job requires a security deposit?
Okay so first off if this a job you are thinking about taking just don't. Legal or not I have never had a job do anything like this or anything close. At the very best they are looking to screw you, at worst they are stealing.
As for if this is legal (nal) my understanding is that for no reason can a company in the US dock, fine or in any other way deny you wages for any work already performed. It doesn't matter if you did the work you need to be paid at the agreed rate. They can come up to you and just say that from this point forward the pay will be different, but only for future work.
The one exception to this that I am aware of is if you sign an agreement with them that lets them do this. Such as fines for lost uniforms. Often this will end up in a legal grey area though very few good businesses will do this.
TLDR business have to pay you for time worked. Crash the company truck they can fire you, but that last check has to be in full.
If you are in the US, thatβs likely very illegal. Wherever you are, talk to your state, Providence, federal, etc. labor board.
Those paragraphs read like a monetary version of a slave's collar... disturbing.
Extremely illegal. Every minute you work must be unconditionally paid in full or they're committing wage theft.
It's a red flag if I never saw one! Better not take that job...
Holy fuck no! That's not normal, and I can't possibly believe that's legal.
Note: my experience is based on living primarily in liberal cities in the US.
This sounds more like someone is comparing housing lease agreements to employment to make a point about how shitty lease agreements are and that they are basically legal, but wouldn't be for employment.
a. no.
B. FUCK NO.
This.
If you work an hour, you are paid an hour. Full stop.
There's no such thing as a security deposit or withholding. Maybe if this was in some sort of backwards ass country.
No, that's wage theft.
Is it even real ?
I truly believe it is plausible because I worked somewhere that tried crap like that frequently.
Someone posted a scathing review on Glassdoor and one of the owners responded by threatening to kill himself if they didn't take the post down. Not, like in an email, no as a post. And gave his name and phone number.
Most likely illegal, but that depends on the "where". But I think this might even be illegal in the US.
This is what the kids are calling a βred flagβ.
Why does it have to be this complicated? See flow chart for sanity:
Did employee work? Yes -> pay them in full
That us a big red flag.
That tells you that people often want to leave that company, and they try to force people to stay. It also speaks volumes about the management culture that rather than entice people to stay they try to make it difficult to leave and punish people for doing so.
Also it's likely illegal - if you work the hours it's your money.
It depends what your situation is - I'd only take that job if absolutely desperate and no choice, and keep searching for something better. I'd write off the half month salary but consider options on making complaints to get the money after I had something better lined up.
Even if everything else about the company is fine, I'd be very wary of the management culture long term.
Many employment law attorneys offer free consultations and work on contingency.
Normal? Yeah. Too common. Wage theft is the most common type of theft.
Legal? No.
fuck that company, don't work for free for even one second.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but it seems like this could be legal in Canada if the employee agrees in writing: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/laws-regulations/labour/interpretations-policies/deductions-wages.html
That said, I'd nope the hell out of that contract, legal or not.
I've had plenty of jobs where you don't get a check for like the first 3 weeks while they setup the payroll system. Or so they say. Frankly, in the modern day, I don't see how it's that hard or takes that long. It should be near instant via an electronic system. Pop my fuckin' info into it and start tracking my hours from day 1.
So apparently, payroll processors will charge you for each TIME you add a new record, rather than each new record added, because they're the ones actually adding you in. So instead, they send batches of new records to add every two or four weeks.
oh please tell me where this company is so I can call them and tell them they're fucking morons. please
Pretty sure that's illegal.
No this is really fucking weird and authoritarian. I'd leave ASAP.
Nope, not legal.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Or, that's a paddlin'.
Both applicable. Take your pick.