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i hope he's changed! and i'm glad people being shitty to trans women using femboys as a cudgel no longer have such a high profile tool to use! but i need people to understand this
As a cisgender straight(-ish) male, I feel the need to inject my opinion into this discussion.
That's it. That's the post.
Honestly, I know I'll get downbeared for this, but I disagree
The woke transgender communist cabal is DESTROYING hexbear folks
As a cisgender straight(-ish) male, I feel the need I feel the need to say, I have no idea who this person is and I really don't understand what anyone is talking about!
you are a happier person than i and i am tempted to ruin that for you
but i shan't
you are a happier person than i
I'm tempted to say "debatable" but I'd rather not tempt fate
It's an incredibly mild complaint compared to how harmful this behaviour was but I am also annoyed by how F1nnster hid taking HRT. Trans people don't need to be out but their whole channel was about being a cis man on T who was just that girly which obviously was a lie. I tried to shake some sense into countless boymoders who were dooming because they were "manlier than a cis guy" and would not believe she was lying about not taking HRT.
At least this video will hopefully put an end to all the cope from insecure trans girls beating themselves down using him as a cudgel but probably not.
I'm genuinely disgusted by that. I'm almost more angry about that. F1n spent all that time making money off of being "just a guy" who looked more feminine than most tgirls do on HRT. Being "just a guy" who was prettier than your girlfriend, while on HRT???
Imagine being a beauty influencer who makes their whole shtick about loving your natural self while hiding the work they've had done.
'Cause the trap ideology thing is somewhat explainable by being egged on by chat and dealing with complex internal identity shit while having no real trans community irl. Doesn't change the responsbility that comes with having a platform but we also don't live in a society that acknowledges that that kind of responsibility even exists.
I'm 4 years HRT and 2 years post FFS and he's prettier than me with a more feminine face. Considering how insecure I am it hurt that a cis guy could do that just for fun and leave me in the dust. That kind of direct lying is not appreciated.
i remember seeing a post (by a trans woman) joking about how she didn't hate f1nn5ter for good reasons, she was just like the evil witch who is jealous of the young princess' beauty in a fairy tale and going "yeah, i feel that"
knowing he was on hrt for at least a while makes me so much madder about that. i don't know how long he was on hrt for, i think it was only like the last 6 months or so before he came out? but even so that's so unbelievably frustrating in ways i cannot put into words
To be fair I don't remember looking very different at all on only six months HRT, idk how much of an effect it'd've had.
yeah this is absolutely not the biggest thing to worry about with f1nn5ter, i don't know how much it mattered to him looking like that, which he certainly did before he started hrt. it's something that really bugs me (i feel like maybe it shouldn't but it does) but if it wasn't for the other stuff i would just immediately let it go. i mean the whole thing is inextricable from the trap stuff but you get what i mean
he made some downlow statements about being on HRT maybe more then a year ago. deflected it to being on Finasteride but many did not believe.
Imagine being a beauty influencer who makes their whole shtick about loving your natural self while hiding the work they've had done.
Hate to break it to you, but that's almost every beauty or fitness influencer out there, male or female. Hiding the use of performance enhancing drugs or surgeries like BBL, ab sculpting or liposuction.
yeah, i hadn't thought about that but that is more than a little fucked up, especially given how much he leaned into that as the gimmick. i mean, i know there was also a lot of just standard streamer stuff, like minecraft streams and whatnot, but that was THE thing she had going on
Why do you think the public was entitled to know he was taking HRT? People come out when they want to come out. I think it's disgusting that you're criticizing a gender-fluid person for not coming out when YOU wanted them to. And he is well within his rights for expressing his feminine side while still calling himself a guy.
Why do you think the public was entitled to know he was taking HRT?
It's messed up in the same way that workout influencers deny being on steroids when they are. It gives people messed up body image issues because they are being told that they can achieve something that is actually impossible. This is a reaction that a lot of people in the thread are actually having.
There are differences of course:
A. There's more social pressure to hide being on HRT than steroids.
B. Not mentioning something is different than denying it.
So, I think we can acknowledge that he had reason to hide it and that he's not required to disclose it, but we can also acknowledge the harm it causes in the discourse when it comes from such a prominent person.
the reason is very clearly stated there, which is that the entire thing his channel was based on was that he was an ordinary cis guy who looked like that and it's now clear that was untrue. he was something used against trans women by transmisogynists regularly. either "why can't you just be a feminine man, like him" or saying he was prettier or some other similar bullshit
And he is well within his rights for expressing his feminine side while still calling himself a guy.
of course! i do not begrudge anyone who does that. however, in addition to the above, he on several occasions made videos* that heavily leaned on some super transphobic tropes, about the idea of an attractive women secretly turning out to be a man as this big twist. that shit gets people killed irl, so him doing it as a joke for content is both in poor taste and also perpetuating that idea that tricking men is what we do as trans women. and it's also his whole gimmick to begin with, and that was how i heard about him. he was the streamer/youtuber who looks like a girl but is a man, that was his thing. the fact that he was lying about that for months, maybe longer, is something that it's perfectly reasonable to be mad about for a whole host of reasons
*
I see those titles and I see someone attempting to explore their identity, albiet in a out-of-touch streamer way and with clickbaity headlines. Anyone who used him as ammunition against other trans people would've just clung onto something else as a weapon if he didn't make his content the way he did.
Stop sowing division in the trans community over something petty. I think the way he made content potentially had a positive impact on many gender-nonconforming people, because he showed that you don't have to identify as trans in order to explore your identity and how you express yourself.
You're upset that he "lied" about being on HRT? Did you tell everyone right away when you started HRT? I would imagine you told people when you were ready. Fin was still figuring out his flavor of gender-queerness and probably didn't want to be pigeon-holed into being called a transwoman by his community. He probably thought it was nessessary to reinforce the idea of "I'm a guy, but I look like a gal." through his videos so much to avoid that.
I see those titles and I see someone attempting to explore their identity, albiet in a out-of-touch streamer way and with clickbaity headlines. Anyone who used him as ammunition against other trans people would've just clung onto something else as a weapon if he didn't make his content the way he did.
Stop sowing division in the trans community over something petty.
ok well this "petty" stuff causes real world harm and, i would like to say again, GETS PEOPLE KILLED. these ideas that he's leaning into and perpetuating get real trans women killed! that is by far the most important thing here, even if there's a bunch of other shitty things going on here. this is not sowing division, this is not petty, this is something that causes actual harm! like, in ways that aren't just a streamer feeling bad because all these trans women think he's one of them
the people using him as a cudgel against transfems would have found other ways to attack us, but having someone so high profile is a uniquely potent form of ammunition that i have the right to be bitter about! i am mad about this shit! i am not advocate we burn him at the stake, i am simply saying i haven't forgotten it and i'm still angry!
I think the way he made content potentially had a positive impact on many gender-nonconforming people, because he showed that you don't have to identify as trans in order to explore your identity and how you express yourself.
good for them! i'm happy for anyone who feels that way! there are some in the comments of this post, i'm glad they found that way of learning to express themselves. i take issue with the phrasing "you don't have to identify as trans to x" because as mentioned transphobes often make that argument using him as an example, and the idea that pressure exerted by people suggesting people questioning their identity identify as trans could be a real problem compared to the massive, overwhelming pressure exerted by our transphobic (and especially transmisogynistic) society is both patently ridiculous and a transphobic trope
but as mentioned i'm genuinely happy for anyone who felt like they understood themselves better thanks to his content
You're upset that he "lied" about being on HRT? Did you tell everyone right away when you started HRT? I would imagine you told people when you were ready. Fin was still figuring out his flavor of gender-queerness and probably didn't want to be pigeon-holed into being called a transwoman by his community. He probably thought it was nessessary to reinforce the idea of "I'm a guy, but I look like a gal." through his videos so much to avoid that.
you're right, i didn't tell everyone right away! i bet you think you're real smart for that one! the difference between me and f1nn5ter is that i was not selling myself as a cisgender man who looked like that, dealing with all those other tropes i've discussed and also (as has been brought up by a bunch of other people here) giving people a lot of body image issues when they compare themselves to him because if a CIS DUDE looks like that why can't i look better when i'm on hrt
but that's hardly the most important point here. it sucks, but the important point is him repeating these deeply harmful tropes. i don't care if he had a hard time with people assuming he was a trans woman (as i mentioned earlier the idea that people pushing him in that way make a big impact comparatively is ridiculous, but i'll roll with it) the trap stuff is inexcusable to me. you cannot do that shit for so long without someone informing you why it's a problem, i refuse to believe no one told him to cut that specific shit out
and it doesn't matter anyway because there's no fucking way he was titling the videos like that to make himself feel better about his gender, that's bullshit and you know it. the videos were titled and thumbnailed like that because leaning into scandalous transphobic tropes gets clicks. and i am allowed to be angry at him for that! you're acting like i have any power over him when i'm a broke removed in a different country expressing my frustration over the shit he's done that's hurt me and my friends and those like us. fuck off
jesus, this really is episode 315 of "transfem eceleb is a Bad Person for not making her entire life fully accessible to the public"
sorry if this reply was nasty, i just feel insane that we're able to slip into this thinking so casually of just seeing a public figure and immediately talking about how they have a Responsibility with their Platform to never make anyone feel any bad feelings even incidentally and never tell any lies and always share personal details and not be too pretty or too complicated or too comfortable with themself and look directly in my eyes and cast a spell protecting me from the evils of this world.
like, there's a reason queer people stay in the closet! it's not because they're evil or cowards! flex your empathy muscles!
i do not think f1nn5ter has a responsibility for that, and the hrt nondisclosure is not the problem here. it's something that's shitty, but not too different from other similar influencers not talking about things they've done to look the way they do. it feels a little worse here because f1nn5ter's whole thing was kind of directly about being a Cis Guy who looks like that and there's already a bunch of feelings and often dysphoria tied to his deal, but it isn't really any different from the examples given by say, redquestionasker2. if a fitness influencer were revealed to be using steroids when they claimed not to be in the middle of there already being a bunch of discourse about that person it would absolutely be something people criticized (as they should), though obviously there are some notable differences between the 2 examples
i would not try and argue this was a big problem on its own, it's the trap stuff that is the real issue to me, because as i keep mentioning, that gets people killed. those ideas and tropes get trans women killed regularly. i think that's the important thing to take away from this
i don't think anyone has said he was evil or a coward for staying closeted? the person you're responding to very clearly says it's totally fine for him to have stayed closeted, but it was a move that did hurt people in certain ways and i think it's important to be aware of that
I guess I understand what you're saying. That stuff wasn't great.
tgirls
can you change this? it's a term I mostly see in fetish/porn and it's kind of a slur. leaving it up as other mods might disagree.
F1nnster sentenced to 15 months community service and a fine of 50% of Twitch donations in the relevant period, by the SCOTTIES (Supreme Court of the Trans-Intersex-Enby Soviet), on the charge of perpetuating harmful stereotypes about trans women for monetary gain.
"I had it coming by all means. Coming out as genderfluid has not absolved me of responsibility for my actions, although it has for the better changed the way I materially relate to the world and my own past, and likewise how the world relates to me and my past in turn.", F1nnster was quoted as saying in a highly publicized press conference after the hearing.
They continued, "In hindsight I deeply regret all my actions and clearly see the harm that I personally caused in my selfish pursuit of fame and money under the inhuman ideology of liberal capitalism. I will graciously and dutifully accept the reparations I must pay to make up for everything I did and ensure that I will not commit any act so despicable or heinous ever again. I understand that some people might never forgive me, and they are in their right to never forgive me just as I am in my right to ask for dignity even as a convicted criminal. Long live the TIES and long live the Revolution."
When reached out for comment, Chief Justice Alicia Athena McRlwain said, "Yeah, F1nnster made a pretty good apology all things considered. Poor kid getting into this mess so young! But justice is justice, F1nnster harmed real people and has to fully account for that somehow. The community service isn't even that hard, honestly, but I'm still glad that F1nnster is taking it so well. We've definitely seen worse reactions from other convicts."
beautiful
how do we not have a crying thumbs up leslie feinberg from that one kelly edit? i need to be able to respond with it here
This one?
yes! i searched the thing for feinberg and it somehow didn't show up
And they caused all that damage for personal gain. For fame & money. f u fster. I’ve never watched a second of your content, and I’m annoyed ever having had knowledge of your existence imposed on me.
I never gave any thought to him other than thinking it was nice he helped normalize gender non-conforming behaviour. A bit disappointing to hear he leaned into this kind of thing.
im going to stay out of this struggle session because i understand theres parasociality involved here and im not being rational. plus ive long moved beyond even being a passive fan of his.
ashley is wonderful though and will die on that hill
buuut.. it was heartwarming to see comments (in youtube comment section of all places) of all the transwomen and men and enbies that discovered themselves thanks to Finn's channel. as well as many formerly straight people that realized they are bi or pan (myself included but more like thought i was gay af).
lots of fuckery for $ and clicks. capitalism sucks.
Idk I'm genderfluid and bisexual too so looking like F1nn5ter is kinda goals for me, I get why people don't like them but I do. I think their relationship with Icky is also really cute.
I’m worried I’ve just had my brain melted from years of seeing transphobic and queerphobic people and transmedicalists online, but I’m scared that there’s an undercurrent of “being gender-fluid (or hell, a femboy) is Wrong” to these criticisms even though I know there probably isn’t. I’m not even a fan of finnster or whoever (in fact they kind of give me pick-me bigot queer vibes) I just read bad vibes everywhere even when there isn’t any.
“being gender-fluid (or hell, a femboy) is Wrong”
i understand but i don't see anything that makes me think there is, its about him purposefully playing to the bigoted side of the femboy culture for views. He was being transphobic and he should be bonked for such.
i can definitely see that. i think this rhetoric could easily shift into that but i personally feel it's stayed on the right side of that line (though obviously i am one of the chief people talking about how f1nn5ter is bad so if anyone thinks i'm on the wrong side of it please let me know) because everything i see has been talking about the specific ways his content has caused harm, mostly with specific examples of people it has harmed
but as i said if you have concerns about transmed rhetoric on c/traaaa please report it and we'll do our best to deal with it, even if it's from a mod. we try to have a zero tolerance policy about that shit
call me a horrible person but I thought him "secretly" being on HRT would be funny to watch as he gave himself dysphoria for the money. but no apparently only we have to suffer from it
I feel like I should find the idea satisfying but it just feels more horrific
Fair point. I try to be gracious and attribute it to ignorance instead of malice. I don't know much about him but I'd dare say he's insulated from the dangers that many of us face due to fame and fortune (relative). As I understand it his chat has also egged him on to do various things, not that it's an excuse, but I think the fame may have made him a bit more impressionable. But at the end of the day, when you've been bimbofied ignorance comes with the territory 
Hopefully some day he'll be able to recognize it and reconcile it. I'm just glad that he can't be a useful idiot for nefarious persons now.
i mean i don't imagine he was cackling with glee and going "now i shall intentionally present myself as a woman then comedically reveal myself to be truly a man, thereby perpetuating negative stereotypes about transfem people 'trapping' men!" but i don't believe for a second no one pointed out to him that it was fucked up, so i'm not inclined to be too charitable about it
I'm just glad that he can't be a useful idiot for nefarious persons now.
this is definitely true though
I get it, but I still like him
Idk, I never thought about that honestly. Also I ha e never met someone who wasn't already trans who knew who f1nnster was. I was just always jealous because he wasn't even trans and was so pretty 🤧
Well now I feel bad about having my egg broken by a “how to prank your friends by making them think you’re a woman” WikiHow article
whatever journey you took to self discovery is a good one. just because wikihow did an article playing into transphobic tropes does not make you bad for finding something in it
i knew a trans woman whose egg cracked when she watched silence of the lambs and saw herself in buffalo bill, your wikihow article is totally fine
Oof to that last one
yeah, i mean she didn't deny that it's a deeply rancid, transphobic movie, and i guess i can see how that would happen. but. eeesh
This is the "back in my day we had to walk uphill on rusty nails both ways" of trans rep. At least today pretty much everyone knows what being trans is even if they hear it from a bigot.
I mean, I realized I was trans after the news aired a really transphobic piece about some athlete (I think it was drag racing?) getting a sex change, when I was a kid. sometimes you just need to hear that being trans is an option and you don't hear anything else. but like that and my dad's general queerphobia convinced me to repress rather than come out then, so it does have consequences.