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What happened at the nation’s first nitrogen gas execution: An AP eyewitness account (CW extreme graphic description of a man choking to death) (www.woodtv.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 72 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Absolutely horrific.

At this point it's trite to say that if this had happened in any other country, there would be incessant media outcry about it. That goes without saying. What I think is interesting is the nature of these experimental execution methods (god what an awful phrase). Who are they for? What is the purpose of this?

We can clearly see that it's not to make it painless for the inmate. It's also not to make it more efficient and quick, the guy choked and thrashed around for ten minutes. So what is the point of even experimenting with ways to kill a person? Is it merely supposed to be bloodless, to make cleaning up easier after the fact? A firing squad is quicker and relatively painless, because the person dies in a couple of seconds, rather than minutes, but it does make a mess.

I just don't get it. If that person should die, then why go through all this fucking trouble when you can just shoot them, or alternatively shoot them up with enough fentanyl to kill a horse? Bullets and fentanyl are cheap. Cheaper than nitrogen gas, I presume. Sometimes it feels like the sadistic fucks in charge of this theater (and it is a theater, curtains and all) are just trying some new shit to see what it will do. Experimenting for its own sake.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Firing squad is messy, fentanyl I’m guessing being a controlled substance/opioid makes it a no go. I remember reading a few years back that the EU was ceasing the export of the chemical traditionally used in lethal injections in the U.S. so my guess is they’re experimenting with a replacement they can source easily.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 9 months ago (1 children)

so my guess is they’re experimenting with a replacement they can source easily.

This is precisely it. The reason lethal injection is so commonly fucked up in the US is because there is no standardized cocktail of drugs used. It varies literally prison by prison, and doesn't even need a physician's approval. I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading about one state where the drugs chosen were chosen by the prison warden solely by vibes

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

and doesn't even need a physician's approval

Never gonna get a physicians approval since physicians take an oath not to kill people. That problem comes up a lot, as soon as the people giving you the drugs find out you’re using it for lethal injection they go “What the fuck what’s wrong with you no you can’t have more”

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not only can they not easily source the chemicals, they can't get doctors and nurses to administer the shots, so lethal injections tend to be administered by cops who don't know what they're doing which is why the previous attempt to kill this inmate failed.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago

Critical support to our doctors and nurses, who realize that "do no harm" includes participating in state sanctioned murder.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 9 months ago (7 children)

it's moments like these where i'm astounded that i can regularly wake up and go about my day in this society like it isn't the most damnable nation to ever stain this earth

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[–] [email protected] 59 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

just fucking shoot them god damn "the cruelty is the point"

[–] [email protected] 50 points 9 months ago

When hanging or firing squad are more humane alternatives, god damn america, that's in the bible.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 9 months ago (13 children)

The most humane method of execution that humanity has ever developed is still just a bullet to the head. People in this stupid fucking turd of a country are unfortunately too bloodthirsty to give up on execution, but also too squeamish to do it the honest and correct way.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

People really can survive getting shot in the head unfortunately.

CW: suicide

I'm friends with some doctors who work in emergency psych units and there are an alarmingly high number of patients who try to shoot themselves in the head and fail to die in various ways that maim them terribly and make their life so much worse than it was before.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I understand what you’re saying, but execution style shootings are different from a failed suicide attempt. Most of the time it’s someone becoming squeamish at the last second and throwing the angle off which results in a botched attempt unfortunately.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

(CW: Discussion of self harm and the description of the execution)

Something seems wrong here. What nitrogen does is replace the oxygen and CO2 in your lungs. Our self preservation instinct doesn't actually respond to a lack of oxygen, but a build-up of CO2. Because of that, nothing is felt when it's all replaced by an inert gas (which, being inert, doesn't do anything to your body directly). It's actually a popularly recommended method among euthanasia advocates and as far as I can tell is the quickest, most painless, most peaceful way to (CW) commit suicide. If I eventually do it, it's probably going to be with that method, but with Helium since it's much easier to get.

With all that said, nitrogen shouldn't cause the reactions described, so I have no idea how they happened. My best guess is that it was his last (purposeful, not instinctive) attempt at saving himself. Which seems like it would be present in every method where they're conscious at the start. But that doesn't fully match with the "spasms and seizure-like movements".

Regardless, while it's probably the best method for someone who wants to die, clearly it doesn't seem great for executions. Of course executions aren't great in the first place, but one where the person is at least quickly anesthetized might be the least inhumane.

Edit: maybe he wasn't thrashing purposefully, but rather tried to hold his breath (or both), which meant the nitrogen didn't quickly replace the CO2, so he experienced the typical form of asphyxiation before the nitrogen could do anything. That would explain the deep gasping breaths at the end, he couldn't hold it any longer. That also explains why he was alive and moving for at least two minutes. Inert gas asphyxiation is supposed to be quicker than that afaik.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (3 children)

They should expect he'd hold his breath, of course you would, so it still means the method doesn't work and is cruel.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (5 children)

spoiler

This was exactly my thought, and holding his breath would explain it really well. Which I guess is a problem with any inhalant method of execution.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

I decided to look into the previous execution and I am now fully sadness-abysmal

Copied from Wikipedia:

CW for horrific violence

Despite the fact that Smith had a motion to stay his execution pending before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, at 7:45 p.m. on November 17, 2022, a lawyer for the Alabama Department of Corrections emailed Smith's lawyers to let them know they were preparing him for execution.[13] Smith spoke with his wife, and at 7:57 p.m. prison guards ended his phone call with her.[13] Smith was handcuffed and shackled and taken to the execution chamber.[13] Two minutes later, at 7:59 p.m. the Eleventh Circuit issued a stay of execution, which Smith's lawyers immediately provided to the Alabama Department of Corrections.[13]

The Department of Corrections replied that they had received notice of the stay, but did not inform Smith or allow him to speak with his lawyers, instead keeping him strapped to a gurney in the execution chamber.[13] At 10:00 p.m. the execution team entered and attempted to place an IV into Smith's arm. At approximately 10:20 p.m. the United States Supreme Court lifted the Eleventh Circuit's stay of execution. Smith told a member of the execution team that they were inserting the needle into his muscle, but the team member told him that was not true.[13] The team then moved Smith into an inverted crucifixion position and left the room, returning after a few minutes to inject him with an unknown substance, despite Smith's objection.[13] Another individual began repeatedly stabbing Smith's collarbone with a needle, attempting to place a central IV line.[13] The results were unsuccessful and at approximately 11:20 p.m. Smith's execution was called off.[13] Smith was unable to walk or lift his arms on his own, and was sweating and hyperventilating.[13] This marked the third consecutive botched execution by the state of Alabama.[13]

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (4 children)

How are they so incapable of killing someone what the fuck? Like just do a firing squad Jesus Christ

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

Holy shit

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

This is disgusting. I have no words to express how fucked this is.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

In bad country, condemned criminals are dispatched by AA gun, unlike us enlightened countries where we slowly choke a man to death while they desperately try to hold on for a few more seconds of life.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 9 months ago

looking for a new execution method

ask the executioners if their method is fast enough to not think about or agonizing suffering

they dont understand

pull out illustrated diagram explaining what is fast enough to not think about and what is agonizing suffering

they laugh and say "it's a humane execution method sir"

use execution method

its agonizing suffering

[–] [email protected] 36 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Just fucking shoot people if you want to kill them, psychos. Or if having to kill someone yourself is too hard, don't do it?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Ya I feel super ignorant, but I sorta wonder why Amerika doesn't do a firing squad anymore.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Guilt.

The button that activates these execution methods - lethal injection, electric chairs, etc - are not placed so the executioner can see or hear the event. It's abstracted to a single switch

In firing squad executions, it became common to randomly assign only a couple weapons with live cartridges, the rest with blanks, because it turns out to be very difficult to look at a human being and fire, and the possibility of one having a blank round meant they could walk away and tell themselves their gun just went click

These days though, with how frothing chuds are, I'm sure you'd find volunteers, which is fucking grim

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Funnily enough america and Nazi Germany encountered similar situations where they figure out people have a hard time shooting other people and switch to "cleaner" methods of murder. Nazi Germany was on a larger scale, but the same logic had the Holocaust evolve from machine gunning people to the gas chambers. Now america has their own gas chambers.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago

The Nazis got their gas chamber idea from the Americans. Gas chamber executions were very common in the early 20th century in the US

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

In a weird way, our fucked up execution methods were an attempt by past progressives to make executions less gratuitous, and every single thing we've come up with in order to do that has been worse (from a "causing unnecessary pain" standpoint) than firing squads and guillotines.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Part describing the execution

The Department of Corrections had required Hood to sign a waiver agreeing to stay 3 feet (0.9 meters) away from Smith’s gas mask in case the hose supplying the nitrogen came loose.

Smith began to shake and writhe violently, in thrashing spasms and seizure-like movements, at about 7:58 p.m. The force of his movements caused the gurney to visibly move at least once. Smith’s arms pulled against the against the straps holding him to the gurney. He lifted his head off the gurney the gurney and then fell back.

The shaking went on for at least two minutes. Hood repeatedly made the sign of the cross toward Smith. Smith’s wife, who was watching, cried out.

Smith began to take a series of deep gasping breaths, his chest rising noticeably. His breathing was no longer visible at about 8:08 p.m. The corrections officer who had checked the mask before walked over to Smith and looked at him.

The curtains were closed to the viewing room at about 8:15 p.m.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 9 months ago

John Brown quote about the crimes of this country etc. etc.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

For a crime older than I am, was there even any justice served at this point? The man wasn't actively a threat to society and was instead used as an experiment subject. The only cases I'm even sympathetic to execution are of the monsters that lead to hundreds of deaths through social murder or negligence, but in the western world you just gotta pay less than a single PS5 to the families to get off the hook for that kind of shit and even then just lock them up.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago

For a crime older than I am, was there even any justice served at this point? The man wasn't actively a threat to society and was instead used as an experiment subject.

Amen. In my view, punishing people for crime is never about justice and always about sadism. Justice is social. Social justice. We should get at the systemic root causes of why crimes are committed in the first place and reduce the rate at which they are committed by addressing those systemic causes. But the false "justice" of the sadistic vigilantes and the reactionaries is to leave the root causes of crime unaddressed, so that they have a never ending supply of convenient scapegoats. Why put an end to things like poverty and addiction when those things are profitable? Why reduce the supply of criminals when you can make a lucrative career out of "defeating crime" by sadistically capturing and punishing individual criminals? These people don't want crime to go away, they want to broaden the definition of crime so that they can capture, enslave, and execute as many as possible.

The only cases I'm even sympathetic to execution are of the monsters that lead to hundreds of deaths through social murder or negligence

Those are precisely the cases which go unpunished because they are crucial to the reproduction of the system as it currently exists. But even this can be addressed systemtically: By getting rid of a system which rewards sadistic vigilantes (cops, judges, prosecutors) with power and prestige.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Is there some way we could purge this nation's sins? If you know of one, you've just been banned from Reddit dot com.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Might as well just tie him to a weight and chuck him in a pool as doing this.

It just seems so obviously cruel on it's face, this outcome was always coming.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I don't know how to say this, but it's kind of awesome that by refusing to die he fucked up their attempts at a non-traumatic execution. Seems like he refused to die without a fight and that fucked up the method. Maybe we shouldn't fucking execute people? Especially if we're uncomfortable with them raging against it with all their might.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Don't have a death penalty but if you do, just blast them full of fucking morphine. Like, we have how to go put feeling pretty absolutelynfucking down. Like, when it's my time, if I have the ability to do so and am dying anyway I wanna make fucking sure it'd from an opiate overdose. If you're gonna exit, it's probably the best way to go. Death sucks but going out not only painlessly but on a high note brainwiaw seems nice and I know frome experience having my blood replaced with morphine is the a guarantee of that

[–] [email protected] 38 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The definition of a "humane" death for these ghouls isn't "kills quickly and painlessly" it's "looks like it does to observers". Obviously the most humane way of killing someone is hitting them with a 200 ton block of stone accelerated to well above terminal velocity. But no one wants to clean up the mess.

Giving someone a morphine overdose might cause the person to throw up and that's gooey so it wont be done.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think the possibility that it might actually be pleasurable--even if only for a few seconds--also puts us off of it. Two of the stated purposes of the death penalty in the United States are deterrence and punishment. A method that has the potential to feel good for the condemned wouldn't satisfy the bloodthirsty hogs enough. There are a lot of people who would bring back drawing and quartering, if given the option.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

Death to America

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I thought breathing some gases, like helium, are a peaceful death, because your body does not realise it cannot breathe? (ie the feeling of suffocation only arises from a buildup of CO)

Or is nitrogen a different deal? Not to say I would support the execution otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

go upthread a great hypothetical behind the CW and spoiler tags

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