Always wondered. Who is going to buy stuff if noone has a job anymore (or income)?
this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
557 points (97.1% liked)
Socialism
5182 readers
23 users here now
Rules TBD.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
The rich.
Small pool tho
At the end of it all, it will be the only pool with money.
On top of UBI that has been mentioned (and in true socialism - everyone's needs met beyond that, including housing, food, utilities, and so on), without capitalism the artificial "need" to "buy stuff" will no longer exist, so there's no problem.
One thing capitalism is great at is selling us "solutions" to problems it created itself.
That's where UBI comes into play
For a guy like Trump or Elon, it's not about owning nice things or having wonderful experiences, it's about having people line up to kiss your ass.
Robots
No one. They’ll phase the proletariat out. Once we’re no longer needed as either labourers or consumers, we’re not needed period.
They’ll mess around with UBI, it will be dystopian (digital tokens with expiry dates, social credit penalties) but eventually they’ll get bored and just kill us off.
The moment is fast approaching — socialism or barbarism.
We need base Income for everyone, at some point … the problem that some earn more than anyone could ever spend, while many can’t afford food, will just become worse.
Just load my consciousness into a computer already. Im tired.
No problem. You're now stuck in Rimworld as an NPC.
With someone using that mod
Oh boy, I can't wait to get gangraped by genetically modified insects which then use me as an incubator.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
I made a similar comment, but put my brain in a robotic/cyborg body or at least hook it up to a computer. I don't care to have a copy of my brain made.
Brain VR would be pretty cool if it's not digital real-estate/micro-transactions etc.
What if it's ship of theseus uploading? Every few moments, one neuron in your brain and all its pathways are replaced by a digital equivalent. One single neuron. Are you still yourself? If yes, repeat.
What's more likely, in practice is an expansion of self into hardware.
Basically, if you bolted a computer to your brain, you would still be you, just with better memory etc. If, at this point, your brain died, then you die. However, if you kept adding to the computer side, more and more of "you" would be software based. What happens at 90% (10x capacity) or 99%? If your brain were to die, "you" only lose 10% of your capabilities. So long as everything critical is duplicated in software, the pure software version of "you" can go on thinking.
Critically, there is no neuron duplication here. It relies on both the plasticity of our brains to adapt, and the fact our self is continually updated.
Interestingly, the first cases might not even be truly planned. What happens when your "neural AI assistant" can continue to function after your death. If it is self aware, and believes it is you, at what point is it still you?
In that case I think it would heavily rely on the whole "everything critical is duplicated in software" part. It's the same ship of theseus, just one level up - instead of neurons and pathways, it's entire sections of the brain. If my biological short term memory withers away from dementia, boom, the chip already has that capability backed up and running. If my long term memory starts going because of Alzheimers, boom, also have those uploaded to the cloud on demand. Got ALS? Motor functions already rerouted through the chip.
At no point is the entire biological brain destroyed at once and "transferred"; there is a continuity of consciousness throughout the process, a continuity of self and pattern. That's the part most critical to me.
Yeah this. Doesn't particularly if it's neuron by neuron or larger scale repairs. So long as not too much is replaced at once, and everything is backed up in software before very the switch, then I'd still be mostly me. I can't imagine the changes wouldn't change my personality, capabilities, etc, but I feel like I'd still be me so long as nothing fucks up in the process. Much better than whole brain backup/cloning, even with neuron-by-neuron copy+destruction.
EDIT: where it gets sketchy is handling conscious (especially internal monologue) and nearly conscious sections. Those would need to be replaced at a slow rate IMO.
Human-contact based jobs should still all be available. Frankly speaking: apart from the AI hype which should just make automated tasks easier, faster and error-proof in the digital world, what jobs are we talking about? Robots have been available since the industrustial revolution began since any machinery can be seen as a robot. Are we talking about luddism?
Ill gladly give a robot my human contact job. Retail customers destroy the soul
The objection is not to the technology but to what capitalism does with it.
Automation is massively reducing the required headcount for corporate bullshit jobs (most american jobs?). Instead of 20 people shuffling an excel file around we just have one python script.
Warehouses are becoming automated as well. Why have However many forklift drivers plus a maintenance department when you can just have a maintenance department. You might need a few new hires for the robots though.
And the forklifts removed dozens of jobs a piece in manual workers using hoists and pulleys to move material.
The fact that automation happens isn't the problem.
The fact that labor receives none of the benefit is the problem, and is exactly what the comic is pointing out.
Robots are made, programmed and maintained by humans. But fewer humans are required, true. Arduino, robotics kits and the entire stem world has been promoted to tackle this problem. It's not so expensive to organize schools this way, but the required staff to train kids is still missing. DIY can help a lot. The labor who couldn't benefit from this kind of edu should receive the basic income and be trained as much as possible.
I'm not sure we can think of a state-managed industry where robots work and people just have fun.
Yeah, as a nurse, hearing about the AI 'revolution' in context of the ongoing extreme shortage of healthcare staffing just makes me think, "Great, more people who can come join us!"
I envision a future where the primary occupation of the vast majority of humans is providing direct care services to other humans.
(Note that I didn't say the primary source of income because that should be UBI. But the primary actually what we are spending our time doing type of occupation.)
Reminds me of the Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson. Artisans that are really good at their craft have their stuff bought by the ultra rich while the rest of society has to take what come out out of what I can only call a replicator.
It may be his best book. I also liked how after the governments broke down people voluntarily joined into tribal associations.
Once we reach a saturation point of jobs lost to AI, we'll have no choice but to either adopt UBI, or leverage the AI tech to "live for free". That, or just eat whoever has the 5 jobs left and therefore all the money, which feels meaningless to the rest of us.
God, I can't wait for AI to break money.
The robot's wage should really go to you, to compensate you for taking your job.
Yup. It's not like the robot is going to spend the money.
As much as i'm all in for automation, art should still be a job or we need to rethink society so that people (REAL PEOPLE) can still make movies, big production, video games etc...
i'd say "now I'm free to actually enjoy life" means that people can do the jobs they want to without worrying whether they can afford to eat or not, so everyone can be an artist or make video games if they so wish.
If only we could :')
But doctor, I didn't have a job. I need to BECOME the robot (with a brain) that takes the job.
Meaningful work is the precondition to enjoying life. Socialism is not about empty hedonism while robots do everything. Socialism is about workers ruling this world, meaningful labor that contributes to society, having enough resources and leasure time to enjoy yourself.
But it’s not about not working.