Democrats want to make the minimum wage $17 an hour and give nearly 28 million workers a raise : brainworms

[–] [email protected] 79 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Minimum wage should be RELATIVE not absolute. When we started the fight for 15 that was OK but pretty sure after the inflation we had it’s not enough. Let’s make minimum wage relative to provide the minimum necessities to live in any city in the country. Or make it a percentage of the highest paid CEO salary. It’s gotta be relative, not a dollar amount but an amount of living you can afford.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Min wage should probably tie to inflation, and we've been doing fight for 15 for so long it probably should be fight for 25 now.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I completely agree with you in theory. Minimum wage should be the minimum amount someone needs to live a non-desperate life. Or some smarter way to say that. My only fear is that Goodhart's Law would come into effect "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." I'm worried that the dickbags would find ways to skew the calculation, to pay people less. Maybe that's still a better alternative than fighting to raise it to a defined amount over and over and over again, though. I just wanted to mention how I was worried. Because of the dickbags.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That’s a good point. I’m sure they’d do something like that. That’s why we tie it to a ton of measures: cost of a gallon of milk+minimum rent+average healthcare costs for a family+S&P 500+cost of phone and internet+etc. A huge, comprehensive reflection of the cost of living AND include the oligarchs favorite market metrics. If we have to bail out Silicon Valley venture capital, they should pay higher minimum wage when they are reaping large returns.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Question - do we also reduce wages if there's deflation?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just make it so it never goes down. It is a minimum, no reason to lower the floor for the lowest earners

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In some European countries it is tied to the cost of living. All wages, not just minimum wages, are indexed to match the inflation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I think ours is supposed to be, i'm Dutch and we get a yearly raise somewhat based on inflation. I say somewhat because it never fully covers the price increases across the board.

As of the past couple years there has been a housing shortage and i've watched rent go from €550 for 120m2 all the way up to €800 for 66m2.

For me personally i'm actually making less (amount per month) compared to rent being €550. While putting in more time and effort into my job, my current job i have the extra task of solving system issues(forgive me for not knowing the English name of this) when it encounters some trouble with faulty pallets up to 21m in height. I'm am "on call" for this too and have to work late shifts. All that for an even lower wage and higher rent.

We used to eat like royalty for €200 a month, we went to the gym daily as our diet allowed to eat enough to actually benefit from working out. Now we pay €400 a month and it's barely enough to have the energy to do my job and go to work on my bicycle (seeing i can maintain it myself, it is the cheapest form of transportation) every day.

But i got fired as a result of a reorganisation, so i'm finishing my last 4 weeks right now and hope i land on a better job with more oppertunities. I'm doubtful as i don't have any real education to my name and it isn't within my budget and energy to do it now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Thing is a US wide minimum wage (which is what this news is about) would be like an EU wide minimum wage. There's crazy variation in living costs across the states.

Somewhere like California is pretty close to this amount already, the employers would just pay out an extra couple of dollars and everyone goes on as normal.

Where the effect in somewhere like the rural rectangle states would be enormous, with inflation skyrocketing, people probably losing jobs over it at smaller firms. People's savings would lose value overnight. People who thought they had enough money to retire will find themselves forced back to work. If you're a young person a $17 min wage sounds pretty great, but that's not the only thing to consider.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

They need to tag it to a COLA element or something. They set it to a minimum that sounds ok when they increase it but then it sits there for 14 years and is completely laughable like it is right now....

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don’t most bigger cities have their own minimum wage requirements?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Every state in the US has its own minimum wage on top of the federal.

Edit - I meant "can." There is nothing stopping a state from increasing its own minimum wage over the federal level. I apologize for any confusion.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Kansas minimum wage is the same as the national minimum wage, so I wouldn't consider that "it's own minimum wage."

Pretty sure it isn't the only one.

Note: this includes the national $2 and something before tips minimum.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I don't think that's true if you look here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_wage

AL, LA, MS, SC, and TN don't have their own minimum wages if I'm reading it correctly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, and also:

Mandatory salary transparency
All hires gain shares of the company while employed there

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good. It should be raised. By a lot.

A full time fast food worker in Australia over the age of 21 makes $24.60 aud ($16.37 usd) an hr. This wage being full time includes holidays, sick leave, paid taxes, and we have universal healthcare. A closer comparison would be the casual rate, which does not include holidays or sick leave, and you have to pay your own taxes. (You still get universal healthcare though) That rate is $30.91 aud (20.58 usd) an hour.

Prices of common things compared to a similarly sized city in the States:

3l of full cream store brand milk is $4.50 aud ($3.00 usd) 1gal of whole store brand milk is $3.09 usd

Loaf of store brand wholemeal bread is $2.70 aud ($1.80 usd) Loaf of store brand honey wheat bread is $1.74 usd

12 cheapest free range eggs $5.20 aud ($3.46 usd) 12 cheapest pasture raised eggs $5.92 usd

1 gallon is 3.7 litres.

1 gallon of the cheapest gasoline in the American city we are looking at is $4.21 usd 1 litre of petrol is $1.88 aud 1.88 x 3.7 = 6.95 1 gallon of petrol is $6.95 aud ($4.63 usd)

1 br 1 ba unit in the middle of the cbd is $500 aud a week. ($332 usd or $1328 a month) 1 br 1 ba apartment in the middle of the cbd is $1550 usd a month

Basic utilities (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment $321.75 usd Basic utilities (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment $330.40 aud ($219.93 usd)

Store brand pre-paid mobile plan 35GB data, unlimited texts and calls $30 aud a month ($19.97 usd) Store brand pre-paid mobile plan 40GB data, unlimited texts and calls $39.88 usd a month

Also factor in the cost of health insurance in the States, which you do not need here.

I moved to Australia from the States around 8 years ago, and the difference in quality of life compared to the relatively similar cost of living was... a huge adjustment.

We talked about moving to the States someday, but now wouldn't consider it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Negotiations for the minimum wage should have a floor of $30.

Any less is malicious neglect of the working class.

If your company can't afford it then your business model sucks, and you can blame dog-eat-dog capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That is $34k a year for full time. The minimum wage was around $15 (too lazy to do the exact math right now) in todays dollars in 1968. I doubt that would cause major issues in the overall economy and would help many.

If you are writing now wage laws, please have them double on national holidays.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

In an economy that is based on charging each other, the more people that has money the more opportunity for all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In 1955 the average annual wage was 4,400 a year, equivalent to $50,000 today.

So this $17 an hour doesn't seem too far off.

Also, I totally agree that we need more holidays and vacation time. Minimum 3 weeks of vacation a year, on top of holidays, along with allowing a minimum of 9 months for maternity leave and 3 to 6 months for paternity leave.

Now we're at it, I would like universal healthcare and world peace too please. 😉

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Good news! There's one simple solution to all that - you just have to get governments to do their job and have them make sure the corporations exist because they benefit the people, instead of the way we're doing it now

Just 1 easy step!

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Totally agree. I ran the numbers for how much it would cost a single person to live in my state, and I came up with a minimum income threshold of about $40,000.

That includes rent, no car payments, utilities, healthcare costs and entertainment costs. So that doesn't even include car payments!

If you make less than $40,000 a year, you will not be able to afford to live in my state - I live in a moderate to high cost state.

$40,000 a year translates into $19/hour.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not democrats, the progressives that should be in their own party. Democrats are gonna let it fizzle out like they always do.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Third candidates don't even work, so that will only backfire unless First Past the Post voting is replaced.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I aint chasing the carrot on a stick any longer. I've got no healthcare, minimum wage from the early 2000's, working my ass off against spiked inflation in record heatwaves. They are not the party that's going to help me with any of these things.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's not a carrot, it's a political razor wire. You cannot charge through it, and doing so is a strategically bad move that only makes things worse (also like that trope where multiple people die in a row doing the same thing they are warned not to do). And thus far it seems like progressives in the house/senate pushes the party left (or at least slows rightward movement) more than failed 3rd-party runs ever will. Particularly because of the legislative process and actual chances of votes passing.

Also unless I'm missing something, "candidate is too progressive to win against the greater evil, so we must choose corporate" is the biggest part of the Democrats that ratchets us down here. If everybody ignored that and voted for progressive candidates, the party would have a chance at being progressive (at least until establishing some form of ranked voting prevents spoiled votes).

So it's that, grassroot movements, and/or something else. Using your half (if even that) of an ineffective system to change itself is not going to work quickly or reliably. The reason many things are so bad is shady groups on the right made long-term plans to reverse old losses, and then used their money/positions/influence to inch towards them over decades.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Im not here complaining that progress is too slow, it's legitimately moving the opposite way. Im not going that way anymore. Im not gonna support grandpa telling unions they cant collectively bargain anymore. Im not gonna support his oil drilling bill, Im not gonna support him ignoring minimum wage, Im not gonna support him abandoning the uninsured poor. I dont support what democrats stand for now.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

What I think a lot of people who are against this are forgetting, is that this type of thing can be great in the long run. I'm sure a $10 jump would hurt some businesses, but it should also be on those businesses to manage their finances to handle it.

You're in a union or job where you make a dollar over the new minimum despite having lots of schooling to get there? Hey, now you have a great reason/excuse to rally together and demand an equivalent raise of your own.

Minimum wage increasing would also mean that more money would go back into the system through taxes and spending, instead of having it just sit in a few people's bank accounts.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Some Democrats do.

Just enough always don't.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

What a bunch of radicals! How dare they give workers fair compensation? What next? Afforable healthcare so people don't die of curable diseases? Didn't they learn to pull themselves up by the bootstraps... or something...? It aint my fault they didn't get to um... inherit billions of dollars.

/s

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's good of him, but I wonder if that can even pass, given that Republicans hold the house, and Manchin and Sinema exist. In the end, I'd settle for $10 to $11 an hour, the removal of loopholes like $2.13 minimum an hour for tipped wages, and similar fixes.

It's a good starting point at least, and Manchin said he was okay with an $11 minimum wage. I just hope it's not just fronting, and something actually comes of this.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's no point to passing that. I'd rather not pretend.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It would be better than nothing. There are a lot of red states that are very low cost of living that could benefit from even a small minimum wage increase.

Unfortunately, that would take pressure off of a more progressive set of labor policies.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

$17 is a joke

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

$17 is $10 better than $7!

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Something I don't understand is why is a specific number tied to the minimum wage. Is there not a legitimate mathematical way to calculate "minimum wage" depending on where you live and your local economy?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

It's not hard, governments index shit all the time. In Australia my university debt is indexed to the inflation rate.

Okay, but why not set the minimum wage to a thriving wage - and then index it with inflation year on year.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In Europe it is almost always tied to the inflation number and automatically updated every year.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It varies wildly between countries in Europe. There are initiatives to have some sort of common baseline though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never going to pass under the current climate. I'm hoping for a blue wave in 2024, but preparing for the worst.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I wouldn't write off anything Biden says at this point, he has gotten a lot of legislation passed by working with the Republicans the last couple years that nobody thought would have been possible.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do it! In fact make it $20 an hour! ✊

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Agreed but this is a good idea in general so it has zero chance of actually happening.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I'm all for it but look forward to another 30% real cost of living on necessities the following year.

BrainWorms