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West Bank videos show Israeli troops killing teenager and driving over man’s body
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
348 points (94.4% liked)
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I hear what you're saying, Bibi and his cabinet of whack jobs are currently the main perpetrators. However, if for arguments sake, Biden sat down with Bibi on October 8th and outlined very clear red lines for it's military aid, ensuring any action that was to be undertaken by Israel would be discriminate and proportionate, we'd be in a VERY different position right now.
Biden and the US military aid to Israel is not the only thing enabling the genocide in Gaza, but the genocide in Gaza would not have been able to happen without it.
No Democratic voter is going to concede this, even though you're right.
They will argue that poor Sleepy Joe is an innocent bystander in all this and completely powerless to stop it, even though he could very well stop Israel from getting five billion in charity annually from us that directly helps them annihilate civilians in Gaza.
I will. They're absolutely right.
I mean yeah he’s definitely right.
“Sleepy joe” give me a break with these toddler level insults.
Excuse me, friend, that's an insult to the intelligence of toddlers. Toddlers can think for themselves and create their own insults.
Yeah do toddlers hold like six events a day and run the county? Grow up.
It's not inaccurate.
I don't know why, in a country of 300+ million people, neither party seems capable of finding a presidential candidate that can form a coherent sentence.
What’s not accurate is trying to paint the sides as the same.
One party has spent 5 decades trying to dismantle the democratic parts of our government, destroy education, trust in doctors and other experts. so you can say stupid things like what you just said.
This isn’t conspiracy, who do you think makes the things that ever made this country great in the first place? Scientists, engineers, doctors and where do you think they typically align party wise…shocker it’s on the left.
Now go ahead reply to me on a device that thousands upon thousands of scientist's and engineers worked together to make possible.
If conservatives were the only kind of people we would still live in caves.
You forgot the one thing that matters in this context more than anything else, and that is the conservatives actively want a hot war with Iran.
They are actual Zionists.
No one is arguing that. Straw man.
Sure Jan.
Sick burn
I agree this take is logical and correct.
That wasn't ever going to happen though. In the big picture, America is thinking about Iran and the next 100 years of stability (or not) in the middle east. America is thinking about hundreds of millions of deaths. What a joke, that it would condition the aid that successfully effects our policy goals in the region for what could reasonably be viewed as a local police matter.
If anything, it would have been counter to our policy in the region--which despite, sensationalism, emotional reaction, and ignorance--is one aimed a stability and lasting human rights. Israel is the only democracy in the region and is increasingly surrounded by enemies, funded by Iran.
Do you think the prospect of tens of thousands of deaths is going to deter America's global geopolitical strategy in the middleeast? Any politician in Washington, DC will correctly tell you that the most significant region of the world for global peace and security for the next 100 years is the Middle East.
Iran would love you! In fact, it's probably Iran and Saudi Arabia that's churning out the Genocide Joe memes.
Biden could do more, but that last sentence in your comment sounds far fetched to me. Or are you saying that because we've been aiding Israel all these years, that's made it possible? I think that's a gross oversimplification if so.
I don't think it is. If Biden cancelled all aid to Israel over this, I think we'd see a big shift in Israeli policy. Remember what happened when the US finally dropped their support of apartheid SA?
It would be a big shift in global policy and would be grossly negligent for any US president.
This view represents a serious misunderstanding of America's and indeed the western strategy in the Middle East.
Centrist Democrats are getting the genocide they have always wanted.
The Standard Centrist Gaslighting, the "this is too complex for your feeble progressive mind to comprehend" bullshit, is what centrist Democrats employ whenever they don't want scrutiny of their positions.
0.004% of the population dead with daily casualties trending downward is a genocide?
How many people would die in a war between Israel and Iran?
even if you weren't making up those numbers, yes, it's still a genocide. they're being systematically killed.
How large a percentage will it take to satiate you?
Know what? I don't trust your numbers. I want a source. Show me a reliable source that says that Israel has only killed 0.004% of the population of Gaza.
Pretty widely reported. If you're not familiar with where that figure comes from or how it's calculated you really don't know enough about what's happening there on the ground to have an opinion about what's happening on the ground.
Satiate? That's a weird choice of word. I'm looking at the evidence and trying to evaluate it rationally. What are you doing?
Right. You made it up and are gaslighting me.
You made the claim. Back it up.
Relationships are unique and I don't think there are many people alive who fully understand the consequences of that move. It likely wouldn't be just a "oh well I guess we call off the war" situation in any case.
If anyone understands it, it's the South African leaders who just presented their genocide case in front of the ICJ. History will remember them.
Has history remembered Tomas Sankara, Kwame Nkrumah and other african leaders who fought for deconlonization? It hasn't because they got on the US' bad side. Heck, if you go to any subreddit and look for what people think of what South Africa is doing, you will see nothing but "We should bring appartheid back to teach them a lesson" among other really bad comments
Biden could and SHOULD do a whole lot more to pressure Israel to end it. He should have said to stop on day 1.
But any aid or supplies we do or don't send to them wouldn't make a difference. They have an entire arsenal of military options and resources and have all the control and power over Gaza.
I respectfully disagree, I think the military aid and supplies that the US sends them definitely enables the disastrous policies against the Palestinians.
Not just enables, it's the only thing that allows israel to do it.
Hezbollah and Iran could completely flatten israel if America wasn't guarding israel with an entire fleet.
Furthermore the bomber parts are American and European. What israel makes in house is mostly ground warfare stuff which is a lot less capable to slaughter civilians like this.
This is exactly correct.
And that's why the aid continues.
America is thinking of hundreds of millions of lives in the next 100 years, and in the grand scheme of things what's happening right now is sad and tragic for a footnote.
You don't create peace by supporting Nazi's.
Do you feel better now?
The US is an ally of Israel because they are the only relatively stable country in the Middle East with Western values that allows the US a proxy base to gather more natural resources such as oil. Look at the new oil pipeline their building off the coast of Gaza.
If by western values you mean Genocide and Lebensraum expansion, I was hoping that we moved past the Nazi shit. We're not supposed to keep doing that part.