this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2024
84 points (100.0% liked)
chat
7976 readers
57 users here now
Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.
As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.
Thank you and happy chatting!
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
What is a "liberal" personality?
I think I mostly mean hobbies and interests that are commonly seen in communists vs seen in liberals
Examples being: I'm somewhat intrigued by designer fashion, enjoy occasionally indulging in lavish consumerism (fine dining, expensive experiences, etc.), enjoy some superficial shit like certain holidays (Valentine's, Christmas, etc.), enjoy making myself look as attractive as possible to the point of vanity, etc.
However, I'm not particularly interested in a sustainable/environmentally friendly lifestyle (I'm not wasteful and I do try to reduce my footprint, just never at significant expense of my comfort or effort), not vegan, not interested/participating in any social justice beyond just "generic" communist/workplace labor/anti-war organizing, talking about any sort of politics IRL (lol), etc.
It's a little hard to grasp myself but I think a somewhat good way to describe it is that because of my upbringing and past efforts to fit in with the people I've grown up with, I'm pretty much just your typical "upper middle" class corporate liberal (and that culture is extremely cishet, patriarchal, allistic, neurotypical, and white) in all ways except I understand class theory, I'm radicalized af, I'm not bigoted, and I organize in a communist party
I can see how having upper middle class interests would isolate you from other communist, its probably not possible for them to share your interests because they are beyond their financial means, but maybe you could try to find a new interest that you could have in common with the communists you come in contact with
Yea, I've been trying but it's a little bit difficult because of the chicken egg situation
I only have well off friends -> end up doing stuff that mostly well off people enjoy
And to befriend non well off people I need to be interested in stuff that non well off people do and enjoy, but that's also infinitely easier when I can hang out and fit in with non well off people
Can't you hang out with fellow party members? When I was in a party we hung out fairly regularly after meetings and such.
I do a lot but hanging out is a lot different than being close friends
Maybe invite some of them to hang out in private? Maybe treat them to some of the bougie shit you enjoy? I didn't meet many communists that were inherently against eating or drinking nice stuff, most just can't really afford it.
I'm not close enough to anybody to invite them to a thing outside of party events yet :(
I'm still working on it though!
Actually now that I think about it, I have a few times but those friendships all fizzled out due to them not committing to organizing regularly so we drifted
I do enjoy the finer things in life as well. However, I still advocate for the balkanization and demilitarization of the USA. When you say you don't 'fit in' with other people, do you mean in terms of making friends or acquaintances?
Not judging but maybe its a "you" problem ? Like I have a friend that I would consider an average progressive / socdem. I think all billionaires should be shot ... he doesnt think so. That doesnt stop us from being friends though.
Well yea, I think my post pretty clearly implied that
And yes, I mean making friends and acquaintances
I had absolutely no issues with that back then when I was masking my autism, tried to fit in with well off liberals, and thought I was cishet
But now I'm trying to become friends with people completely outside of that demographic and it's hard for the aforementioned reasons in the post and other comments
Hmm I dont think I have any real advice. Im usually pretty good at getting along with people outside of my comfort zone. Even getting friendly with them. Like im queer but all of my friends except 1 guy are just cis het.Then again I can see it being difficult getting close to people that run in different circles.
Either way - Good Luck
I did like your Donghua Jinlong's Industrial Grade Glycine post btw.
You can enjoy life and be a communist, it's okay!
I know, which is why I still do it and don't consider myself any less of a communist than other organizers
I just recognize that outside of politics personality and interests wise, I have way more in common with the average neo/liberal than communist
I mean, you sound pretty young, in which case the people you're talking about are still young too. A lot of people that you assume are white supremacists have never been challenged on their beliefs or lack thereof. Maybe don't write off so many people as impossible to befriend, they could become just as left as you, but you'll never know if you don't give anybody a chance.
I mean yea, I don't think they're unconvertible but as a minority, I don't have any energy left to try and convince almost everybody I meet that Asians aren't brainwashed hordes or want to take over our country or that Africans aren't inherently dumber or more inclined towards violence and uncivility
Even as a child I never had xenophobia near approaching what I hear today and I'm not going to sit there and explain to them why my ancestors and the rest of the world aren't inferior
I think way less people actively hold those beliefs than you think. Yes, those stereotypes are ingrained in the western mind, but if you ask most people if those things were true they would say no.
You can't hold everyone you meet to the standard of "if you're not a devout communist, you are a blatant racist, homophobe, etc". And yeah it is not your job or responsibility to educate people, but if you see enemies everywhere, it's going to be hard to make friends and you are going to make yourself miserable. I'm not trying to be condescending or tell you how to live your life, I just think you are being the enemy of your own happiness.
I think the last 4/5 times I casually brought up Tiktok to acquaintances/strangers they say something about the Chinese communists controlling our youths or spreading propaganda
Half the times somebody asks me what phone I have and I tell them it's a Xiaomi or OnePlus they make some joke about spyware
People will mock me for supporting child labor when I answer that I got my clothes from Shein while they're decked out in Uniqlo and Nike
People regularly talk about their travel overseas in Africa with sadness that they'll never be able to be civilized or democratic because they're too poor. They talk about how suspicious and sketchy things are in South Asia/SEA while describing scenarios that are super normal and harmless, just culturally different
You don't even know where I live, you don't know what experiences I've had
I'm holding people up to 0 standards, it's just that very little people meet the already in the ground bar that I have
Also, people I meet from non-Western countries pass that bar way, way more fucking often than Americans do. Even Canadians pass the bar significantly more often than Americans do. So no, I don't try and see enemies everywhere I go
Don't even for a second say that Americans are not one of the most xenophobic and racist people
I understand. I feel the same way a lot of the time. I'm sorry about that other person, they were obviously frustrated but being dismissive of your lived experience and throwing it in your face just because you didn't immediately accept their vague sentiments isn't fair.
I'm the only non-white person in my team at work. My manager and several members of my team have always treated me with more scrutiny, more suspicion, less leeway than they give any of the others. Less professional courtesy in general. I didn't invent these enemies, I tried to fit in the best I could but there's something ingrained inside of them that tells them that I'm lesser than they are and they act on it. That's just in a work environment, now just imagine how much worse it is in a social setting.
So I understand. It's not as simple as just "seeing people as friends rather than enemies." Sometimes what you choose to see people as doesn't change anything, unless the solution being advocated is for you to diminish your own dignity and self and blind yourself to people's hostilities towards you. Which is what we all do anyway. It doesn't make you feel any more accepted.
Thanks for seeing me and understanding
I am white so take this with a grain of saltine, but at no point did I try to imply that people who are bigots deserve an ounce of OP's attention or respect. Apologies if I didn't understand they needed validation instead of advice, you know we
s give the best advice.
I feel you on getting sucked into the consumerism aspects of hobbies, especially as I'm trying to stop buying fast fashion and focus on quality brands that will last at least a year before pilling. At least where I live, I'm vegan and also feel a weird obligation to eat out at vegan places because they realistically might shut down or move in half a year's time so I feel like I need to enjoy it while I can. And yeah, holidays are the exact excuse I need to take an extra (unpaid) day or two off work and slack on the overtime just to catch my breath.
I'm too tired from work to help out even my local DSA (yes, I know they're libs) so I just end up giving them money every month instead. I work extra and then I cope by buying shit and then uh oh, gotta pay that off with more work, and if I ever stop I might stop growing as a person and become stagnant again. Gotta touch grass at least once a week but the public parks are boring, the museums all cost money, and hey look a convention is in town this weekend that'll be $50 before food and souvenirs if you're lucky. I've got boxes of legos and books untouched at home not because I'm not interested in them, but because watching TV and playing video games is just about all the energy I have to spare. I have managed to spoil myself while being at my fucking limit.
Anyways, yeah you're not alone on the alienation. Message me if you wanna talk.