this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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Privacy

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New research reveals serious privacy flaws in the data practices of new internet connected cars in Australia. It’s yet another reason why we need urgent reform of privacy laws.

Modern cars are increasingly equipped with internet-enabled features. Your “connected car” might automatically detect an accident and call emergency services, or send a notification if a child is left in the back seat.

But connected cars are also sophisticated surveillance devices. The data they collect can create a highly revealing picture of each driver. If this data is misused, it can result in privacy and security threats.

A report published today analysed the privacy terms from 15 of the most popular new car brands that sell connected cars in Australia.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Mozilla Foundation did a deep dive into this. And the results where abysmal. The only brands not completely horrifying where Renault/Dacia because they are European and only serve the European market so they have to follow GDPR.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

I am less interested in ranking them based on what they do (because we can assume they just vacuum up everything anyway), and more in a ranking based on how easy the surveillance is to remove. Apparently for some cars the telematics module can be easily unplugged at least, losing you some non-critical functionality, but on others it may be integrated tighter.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 days ago

Any company that serves European customers have to follow GDPR. Any company that breaks it can be fined by the EU. Hence why a bunch of American websites rather just block European browsers instead of changing their cookie/data retention policies.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

New report Mozilla said this a year ago I think. Released a privacy report on all car manufactures.

[–] [email protected] 84 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

It's also why repair costs an arm and a leg.

It used to be a bumper was just filled with foam, so getting in a fender bender was a pretty cheap fix.

Now a bumper has upwards of $5000 in technology and sensors sitting in it, and a fender bender can often make the car considered "totaled" because the cost to repair is now more than the total resale value of the car.

Get a bike, ride a bus, fuck surveillance capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Best part is it's $5000 because they get to name their price. These sensors, headlights, etc, cost nowhere near that, but where else are you gonna go get em?

So in a few years when your new car has depreciated to somewhere around 10k and you get a massive repair bill? Well most people are scrapping it and getting another car, convenient for them....

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Opting out still seems like they're pinkie promising they won't spy on you. There's no guarantee they're not using all those sensors on your car to keep tabs on you. The only thing they can't do is sell your data without getting caught. Are there any guides to install a faraday cage on the telemetry antenna? I miss having dumb cheap vehicles.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

I just pulled the fuse for my vehicles modem once Mozilla released their report earlier this year or last year.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I think the best course of action is to find an cut the antenna or it's trace on the board (and verify). Sounds a lot easier than it is though.

edit: or also pull the modem fuse, if it has one

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 days ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Seems like you have bigger issues than corporate surveillance.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

or he just has priorities that include travel experiences that he'd rather spend his limited cash on than a hotel. Until I got old and needed a c-pap machine this was certainly my preference.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

At least in most US cities, it's also illegal to sleep in your car. You're pry fine in the netherlands.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In all US cities, the police can't enter your car without a warrant. So just put up curtains and ignore them when they knock

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Your word against theirs, and they can easily say they saw something suspicious. That's how it works with every stop and search.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago

Not with that attitude!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

A lot of you probably already know about this one but here's Mozillas privacy not included blog where they review smart devices/services based on how much data they collect about you. A lot of car manufacturers at the very top of the most creepy ones.

Mozillas privacy not included.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago

Sell me a dumb car.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I played Cyberpunk 2077 many times and in the game they have vehicle quickhacks that allow you to stop a car temporarily (emergency break), force the car to full throttle (Floor it), taking control of the car... or making the car blow up with self-destruct.

Now it's just a game and this can be excused, but at the same time I wondered how the hell could you make a car blow up? Then I realize Tesla cars can burn quite viciously, and the mechanisms of opening the door CAN be jammed. The other shit is probably going to be quite possible soon if not already. Meaning we could see high-tech murders happen by people who find weaknesses in car cybersecurity and exploit it to kill their target, and if they cannot trace where the hacker was or how it would be an unsolvable murder...

But that's only if a random ass murderer does it. It wouldn't surprise me if corporations wanted to off someone they didn't like for any reason and that person was driving one of their cars then... yeah, it doesn't take much imagination there, does it?

Maybe it's because I am an elder millenial who never owned a car, but only rented cars when I need them, The most I ever used is google maps (now Osmand... which is the superior Open source option!) to find my way. But I never felt the need for anything else other than blindspot detectors (which don't need to be connected to anything!) to help in lane changing since it makes that task easier. I listen to all my music and stuff on my phone (which is another tracking device I fucking hate) so I don't even bother with the radio.

In short. I would like my automobile to be like what automobiles were... a hunk of metal that is used to travel from point A to point B. This is coming from someone who LOVES technology and I recently took the time to buy a 6000$ desktop because I fucking wanted the most high end machine I could get and I love it. But even I have my limits.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

yeah, I work in automotive and "vehicle inhibit" is definatley a feature we have. I could be wrong but I think its actually a legal requirement now to sell in certain jurisdictions (I don't work in that side of the company).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

So... a hacker CAN make the cyberpunk 2077 quickhack Emergency Break a reality? Well fuck me sideways!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's how the CIA killed reporter Michael Hastings for demonstrating american arrogance of McChrystal and his squad of butchers which led to the europeans funding the war on islam a little bit less.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

I just looked up Michael Hastings on Wikipedia and I find his 'car accident' to be a little too damn suspicious.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 days ago (1 children)

A few years ago, when I cared little about my privacy, I would fancy buying a new car. Thanks to privacy concerns, I became proud to have my old car, which also happens to be highly repairable.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 days ago (3 children)

yep. I just with some car company would choose not to do this and advertise the fuck out of it. (looking at you Chrysler you have nothing to lose)

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

This is why when I get my driver's license, I'll buy a car from 2012 that has no Internet. Probably old Skoda Octavia.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

9th Gen Civic

1.8 or 2.4L, no turbo, tons of manual transmissions out there, cheap to fix, easy to find and source with tons of motors still in crates brand new.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah I have a 2012 vehicle, doesn't even have built in Bluetooth. I love it.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

I once had a conversation with AI to see what the fastest form of local transportation is, that didn't absolutely require paying any kind of insurance, like cars do. I did not expect the response at all: the AI told me horseback riding. The thing is, it's completely right, but it's something no human would ever have given as a response. Anyways, if anyone has a horse you don't want...

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

An eBike would be faster, and way easier to maintain and store. They don't require insurance.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Horses can run between 25-30 MPH, a class 3 e-bike caps out at 28 MPH. So, they're about the same.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Also, horse is bigger/more visible to cars, and maybe could be in the street. So you may not have to wait on traffic crossings as much depending on the area.

I still choose e-bike because poo, but what a looney idea, I love it.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

That's why I'll take bus, train, rideshare, carshare, plane with all the cameras and tracking over buying a new personal vehicle. Modern cars can build a personal digital profile of you, they know where you travel, they track your plate, and we found out they track your driving behaviour to screw with your insurance rates.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Also consider getting an ebike, if possible.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

In fact, I have one! And for its size (20-inch wheels and foldable) it can fit a lot!

E-bike

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Nice, that looks legit.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 days ago (11 children)

Even if your vehicle isn't watching you, your phone is

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

Not my phone. I dont run spyware on it

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 days ago (5 children)

First thing I did when buying my '21 Toyota was remove the fuse giving power to the cellular modem. Is it still recording my data? Of course, but that's only a worry if I go to their dealership for service. If I ever need to actually do that (recalls for example) I'll remove the DCM module from the vehicle before bringing it in. There's a very good local shop near me that I'll bring it to for normal maintenance before letting Toyota plug in to the car and download my data.

Some vehicles this may not be possible, so if this concerns you, check forums about your vehicle if it is a moving spy machine before trying this because you might end up causing the vehicle to be put in limp mode because of some BS design choices.

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