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I hate religion and overly religious people.. you are ruining the planet.
Wtf
Religion is a disease on humanity
Religion is nonsensical - anyone claiming supernatural abilities or visions or prophethood today is rightly treated for a mental disorder
The only way to keep people under the influence of religion is to enforce it as the norm. It's like the horse tied to a plastic chair - once you see the reality of it all, you're free
I feel like people shouldn’t be allowed to join until they are 18
If we take it as a contract of the soul then how can a child consent to it?
Religion is nonsensical - anyone claiming supernatural abilities or visions or prophethood today is rightly treated for a mental disorder
It seems everyone is prone, though. Even those who are supposedly the enlightened. Just look at the religion of post-secondary education – promising supernatural abilities to magically increase one's income, even going as far as threatening to forever stricken you to the hell of flipping burgers at McDonalds if you don't give praise to the deity. Meanwhile the data clearly shows that the promises have never materialized. Incomes are stagnant, job quality has declined, etc.
Meanwhile the data clearly shows that the promises have never materialized.
The data absolutely does not say that.
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-study-college-degree-carries-big-earnings-premium-but-other-factors-matter-too/
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/06/01/new-report-shows-college-degree-continues-to-provide-better-employment-prospects-and-higher-income/
- https://www.aplu.org/our-work/4-policy-and-advocacy/publicuvalues/employment-earnings/
Literally every study I've ever seen done on whether or not college is worth the money concludes that on average, it is and by a large margin
Literally every study I’ve ever seen done on whether or not college is worth the money concludes that on average, it is and by a large margin
Is there a reason you didn't link to those studies instead, then?
All three of the linked studies only show that those with down syndrome will not go as far in life as those who were born highly capable. Which surprises nobody, but has nothing to do with post-secondary education. There is nothing in there to suggest that graduating from college will cure down syndrome, as neat as that would be.
All three of the linked studies only show that those with down syndrome will not go as far in life
Lol, dude you have to be one of the more ridiculous trolls I've ever encountered on the internet. Keep up the good work
Religion truly is strange. Now we even have the devout shouting "heretic" when their religion is called into question.
I get why you want to think that your deity creates all people as equals, only differentiated in whether or not they chose to attend college, but that's not how it actually works in the real world. There are huge differences between individuals. Many do not even have the capacity to graduate from college, no matter how much they want to. Those same struggles impact them throughout all of life.
To point out that those with such struggles do not make as much money as those with higher capabilities is interesting, I guess, if not blatantly obvious, but has nothing to do with post-secondary education. Again, there is nothing to suggest that graduating from college can cure what ails you.
Definitely still interested in the studies you spoke of earlier.
This comment makes me think that psychedelics should be illegal for anyone right of Bill Clinton. "Isn't college a false religion?" Dude just stop...
Fascinating how the religious will try to 'defend' religion with silly non-sequiturs, purposefully ignoring the issues their religion has. I guess that's the very nature of religion.
I agree that there are major issues with the cost of education, but I don't see similarities between belief in religion and belief that education is a worthwhile investment
I get the impression you are mixing up religion with "the church". The church can be quite valuable as a social community centre. Likewise, post-secondary schools no doubt offer similar community value. But we're talking about the belief system people have built up around it. One that often makes unfounded spiritual claims and threatens repercussions to those who do not attend church/school. That is where religion enters the picture and post-secondary education seems to be especially attractive to religious-types.
I'm talking about beliefs, including, but not limited to: people walking on water, filling a boat with a pair of every animal in existence, and travelling to heaven to negotiate, with God, the number of daily prayers required by a believer. None of these things have actually been witnessed, because they simply didn't happen
With respect to the belief that schooling can result in the obtaining of lucrative employment - many people, including myself, have witnessed students acquiring skills and experience in school that they used to obtain jobs that provide ample wages
I don't see a parallel between the two
because they simply didn’t happen
They have. I have watched people walk on water. Of course, not in some magical way... all very explainable when you understand the underlying trick.
many people, including myself, have witnessed students acquiring skills and experience in school that they used to obtain jobs that provide ample wages
Likewise, simply watching someone go to college and get a job afterwards is not sufficient evidence that college is the reason for the outcome.
What we do know is that incomes have held stagnant through the rise of post-secondary schooling. This tells that some people always found higher paying jobs and other people always found lower paying jobs. What it also tells is that more people haven't found higher paying jobs after going to college. If the more and more people going to college were finding more and more higher paying work then the aggregate income mathematically could not be stagnant. But it is.
So, what you have is an extraordinary claim. Unless you just want to buy into a religion and believe everything you see at the surface level, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What controls do you have to ensure that you've not just missed an underlying trick?
You really think you're on to something here, don't you?
Frankly, I am unsure of how to interpret this ad homiem. Do you honestly believe it has relevance to the discussion, or is it intended as a "go away you heretic"?
It's a crude, and admittedly unbecoming act of disengagement
Please accept my apologies for my rudeness
This discussion isn't heading towards any sort of mutual agreement, understanding, or knowledge sharing, so let's end it and move onto more interesting things
all the best to you
This discussion isn’t heading towards any sort of mutual agreement, understanding, or knowledge sharing
Oh? Surely that would only be possible if religion is coming into play. And if it is that religion is coming into play, then we've still learned something – it being the topic of discussion.
Seven years ago, Jakarta's former Christian governor, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, was charged with insulting Islam and sent to jail after citing a verse from the Koran to mock his political opponents during an election campaign.
I don’t see that this is jailworthy, but at least this one might actually be insulting Islam. The one in the headline is nuts.
For a Christian equivalent, in case that helps anyone: Imagine listening to a speech about how gay rights are important, responding at some point with “amen, sister!” and getting jailed and fined for insulting Christianity. “Bismillah” is straight up idiomatic among plurality Muslim populations, like “wallah” is or “oh my god” among christians.
I think that "amen" has become detached from its religious meaning in that context and is more just an expression of support. There are even churches that are pro gay rights. To me this is more purposely combining something deeply sacred with something deeply profane. If you imagine the religious right's reaction to a video of someone masturbating while reciting the Lord's prayer I think you get a bit closer to the cultural significance of this act.
I’m not Indonesian or Muslim, so I may have overstepped.
In my area, which has a large Muslim population, it is said by observant and non observant Muslims, as well as by non Muslims who hang in Muslim circles frequently. To the point that people say it when they cheers with alcohol. Where I am, it seems to be about as disconnected from true religious expression as wallah is. Perhaps that’s the sort of thing that happens more with a diaspora group, or I’m just surrounded by blasphemers.
Should I stop saying it in case I offend more religious Muslims?
Oh I can't speak to what you should or shouldn't do in order to respect religious muslims, and I may have been wrong in how I understood "bismillah" to be used in Muslim majority areas. I apologize for stepping out of my lane, my point was simply that in the US the phrase "amen" has become a general expression of assent and lost almost all of its religious connotation outside of when it's actually being used during a prayer.
That’s 100% what it’s like where I am, completely disconnected. We say it for bon Appetit, cheers, and sarcastic “lie back and think of England”
"bismillah" means "in the name of God". It's intended as an observance that a Muslim lives in servitude to God
It becomes habitual to say bismillah before doing anything (similar to "inshallah", "God willing") since it is said so frequently
In this case, doing something counter to what is seen as lawfull (eating pork) and invoking God could be seen as an affront
It’s the commonality of bismillah that’s difficult here. Where I am, Muslims who drink say it to cheers. I don’t know if that’s common in Muslim majority countries though. Here, lots of non Muslims say bismillah, inshallah, wallah, and probably more I’m forgetting, but that could be an anomaly.
Lots of christians consider homosexuality banned by the Bible and “amen” to be inseparable from religion, as it’s derived from an affirmation of belief and is used to certify the truth of religious statements. I gave the analogy intentionally, but my understanding of bismillah could be too local.
I think you're right on. Bismillah becomes just part of the cultural lexicon for Muslims and apparently non-Muslims who live amongst Muslims
If someone used it deliberately, invoking it's actual meaning vs just saying it out of habit, it would be a more impactful gesture. I can't judge which case this example is
Separately, my belief is that if Muslims truly want to stop people from inciting them, they need to ignore these acts
Of course, the governments and religious leaders are all for making a big deal of all this because it's a way to control people through their emotions
“wallah” is or “oh my god” among christians.
TIL that "wallah" is a religious phrase
It basically means “I swear to god”
Wallah, the sound, has a number of roots. I'd only heard it used as an anglicized version of voila, which is relatively recent in the English language and started as a joke.
Here's a link from someone who put in more work researching this than I can bother with.
Wallah wallah wallah uh, tell me more, tell me more...
Why is it important that she has a lot of followers on tiktok?
According to the article, the law is about spreading blasphemy. It doesn't say whether committing blasphemy is sufficient on its own, so the number of followers may have been instrumental in the charging, conviction, or sentencing.
It's also possible that it was merely showing that being famous is no protection.
I guess because she has a bigger reach than the imam who accused her. He was probably jealous.
this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
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