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this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
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I don’t see that this is jailworthy, but at least this one might actually be insulting Islam. The one in the headline is nuts.
For a Christian equivalent, in case that helps anyone: Imagine listening to a speech about how gay rights are important, responding at some point with “amen, sister!” and getting jailed and fined for insulting Christianity. “Bismillah” is straight up idiomatic among plurality Muslim populations, like “wallah” is or “oh my god” among christians.
I think that "amen" has become detached from its religious meaning in that context and is more just an expression of support. There are even churches that are pro gay rights. To me this is more purposely combining something deeply sacred with something deeply profane. If you imagine the religious right's reaction to a video of someone masturbating while reciting the Lord's prayer I think you get a bit closer to the cultural significance of this act.
I’m not Indonesian or Muslim, so I may have overstepped.
In my area, which has a large Muslim population, it is said by observant and non observant Muslims, as well as by non Muslims who hang in Muslim circles frequently. To the point that people say it when they cheers with alcohol. Where I am, it seems to be about as disconnected from true religious expression as wallah is. Perhaps that’s the sort of thing that happens more with a diaspora group, or I’m just surrounded by blasphemers.
Should I stop saying it in case I offend more religious Muslims?
Oh I can't speak to what you should or shouldn't do in order to respect religious muslims, and I may have been wrong in how I understood "bismillah" to be used in Muslim majority areas. I apologize for stepping out of my lane, my point was simply that in the US the phrase "amen" has become a general expression of assent and lost almost all of its religious connotation outside of when it's actually being used during a prayer.
That’s 100% what it’s like where I am, completely disconnected. We say it for bon Appetit, cheers, and sarcastic “lie back and think of England”
"bismillah" means "in the name of God". It's intended as an observance that a Muslim lives in servitude to God
It becomes habitual to say bismillah before doing anything (similar to "inshallah", "God willing") since it is said so frequently
In this case, doing something counter to what is seen as lawfull (eating pork) and invoking God could be seen as an affront
It’s the commonality of bismillah that’s difficult here. Where I am, Muslims who drink say it to cheers. I don’t know if that’s common in Muslim majority countries though. Here, lots of non Muslims say bismillah, inshallah, wallah, and probably more I’m forgetting, but that could be an anomaly.
Lots of christians consider homosexuality banned by the Bible and “amen” to be inseparable from religion, as it’s derived from an affirmation of belief and is used to certify the truth of religious statements. I gave the analogy intentionally, but my understanding of bismillah could be too local.
I think you're right on. Bismillah becomes just part of the cultural lexicon for Muslims and apparently non-Muslims who live amongst Muslims
If someone used it deliberately, invoking it's actual meaning vs just saying it out of habit, it would be a more impactful gesture. I can't judge which case this example is
Separately, my belief is that if Muslims truly want to stop people from inciting them, they need to ignore these acts
Of course, the governments and religious leaders are all for making a big deal of all this because it's a way to control people through their emotions
TIL that "wallah" is a religious phrase
It basically means “I swear to god”
Wallah, the sound, has a number of roots. I'd only heard it used as an anglicized version of voila, which is relatively recent in the English language and started as a joke.
Here's a link from someone who put in more work researching this than I can bother with.
Wallah wallah wallah uh, tell me more, tell me more...