this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

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[–] [email protected] 179 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (39 children)

I think it's more a generational gap in basic computer skills.

Millennials grew up alongside modern computing (meaning the two matured together). We dealt with everything from BASIC on a C64 to DOS and then through Windows 3 through current. We also grew up alongside Linux. We understand computers (mostly) and the (various) paradigms they use.

Gen Z is what I refer to as the iPad generation (give or take a few years). Everything's dumbed down and they never had to learn what a folder is or why you should organize documents into them instead of throwing them all in "Documents" library and just using search. (i.e. throw everything in a junk drawer and rummage through it as needed).

As with millennials who can't balance a checkbook or do basic household tasks, I don't blame Gen Z for not learning; I blame those who didn't teach them. In this case, tech companies who keep dumbing everything down.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 week ago (4 children)

you should organize documents into them instead of throwing them all in “Documents” library and just using search.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 week ago (4 children)

nobody look at my downloads folder. It's fine. I promise.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago

Organizing my downloads has been on my to do list for... Four, I think? Yeah, four... phones...

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 week ago

I appreciate this measured take. Whenever generational differences get brought up, they oftentimes seemed framed as if generations are biologically different creatures or willfully choosing to be stupid in some sector. In all, or at least must cases, it's what you suggest: people responding and developing based on what the environment has presented them.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Millennials grew up alongside modern computing (meaning the two matured together). We dealt with everything from BASIC on a C64 to DOS and then through Windows 3 through current. We also grew up alongside Linux

Only the oldest millenials did. When the youngest were born, the internet and Windows 95 were readily available and they were in middle school when the iPhone came out.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Trouble is that there are enough millennials who also have absolutely no clue about computers. Between dude-bros who won't touch that nerd shit and girls who got told by their nerd boyfriend's that the computer will start to burn if they click anything besides their allowed icons a vast majority of people are glad if they know how to turn on the computer and print out their document.

Yes, there are probably a lot more computer literate millennials than in other generations. But even there it pretty much depends on family and friends. And in a pirate community on Lemmy most of the people will belong to the tech savvy bubble.

In our friend group even the most computer illiterate kid knew how to set up a LAN without a DHCP server. Their younger siblings had no idea a LAN was even a thing.

My wife's ex always told her that she couldn't understand how to work with a computer. Her older brother who works in IT wouldn't explain anything to her either. They were pretty astonished when they heard that she had installed a GPU by herself (which most people here know is trivial). Which gave her enough confidence to fix her VCR by herself.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago

They were pretty astonished when they heard that she had installed a GPU by herself (which most people here know is trivial). Which gave her enough confidence to fix her VCR by herself.

Anyone can learn any skill if they actually invest the time.

And regarding the older brother, you learn pretty quickly working help desk that users generally don't care what the problem is or why it happened. They just want to get back to work and not have it happen again. After a while you get conditioned to just be friendly and solve the issue without explaining what you're doing or why.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Exactly. Basically nobody in their 30s can, say, drive a manual car without a synchro, unless they specifically practiced it, because there is zero need to learn that skill. And basically nobody under 20 can set port forwarding on a router because there is basically zero need for that skill.

When I wanted sound on Arkanoid, I HAD to learn IRQ settings, so I did. But now that stuff just works.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is part of why I, who am part of Gen Z, am actually really thankful that I didn't get access to iPad until 9 (first gen, it might still be around here somewhere, kinda wonder if it'll ever become a relic) and phone until 13, but did have access to a super old windows computer. It taught me how to install mods in Minecraft. It was astronomically difficult for me at that time with my limited understanding and all the fake green "Download here!" buttons that kept duping me and installing tons of bloatware and even malware onto the PC (yet another reason why AdBlock is a privacy and security concern, honestly deadass don't let kids use a computer without it). But eventually I caught on and got good at identifying the scams from a young age and was able to teach other kids, and even eventually got into command stuff and writing my own mods. I memorized all of the block and item IDs before the flattening, but after that I was so disheartened that all my memorization was useless I kinda just stopped and never got really good at it. But still, just from that alone my computer knowledge was way ahead of other people's around that time, and you might even say it set the foundation for my now linux-using open-source-contributing fediverse-loving self hahaha

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[–] [email protected] 89 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Generational wars doesn't do anyone any favors.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yeah and let's not pretend that everyone back in 2002 was eMuling or torrenting and cracking videos games. I knew so many people who failed at ripping a CD to MP3 or copying it with a CD burner.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Acknowledging differences is not "war".

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[–] [email protected] 86 points 1 week ago (14 children)

I'm an older GenZ born in the late 90s and I've had to show a few younger peers how to torrent recently.

The idea of you needing a "special" program just for downloading a file seems to throw some of them off.

I do know a few young people are tech/programming wizards but "generally tech savy" people seem to be declining. It's either you're really into it or barely know anything outside popular apps.

One other thing I've noticed, People just seem to be more paranoid about downloading stuff not already installed on their devices. Which its good people give at least a bit of a shit about security but convincing people Firefox isn't a virus gets a bit annoying (Yes I've had that conversation).

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

People just seem to be more paranoid about downloading stuff not already installed on their devices.

I see this as a natural byproduct of Google, Apple, et al. "Walled Garden"

They want you to consume only from them and only what they approve of. Granted Apple is far more on the latter side than Google but even Google fought tooth and nail to keep Epic from having their own store.

I don't interact much with people who are younger than me but I feel like the age of tinkering might not be as strong with them as it was for me. PCs were the predominant form factor and you could literally take it apart and put it back together with just a screwdriver. You can't do that with laptops or phones at least not without a lot of other specialized tools. This isn't their fault either since device manufacturers have really tried to make it difficult to do anything that they don't control.

Hell chrome is the best example of this. Google, whose business is selling your personal data for ads, is preventing the use of ad blockers. Firefox is mostly developed by Mozilla with a small handful of volunteers. It's already showing signs of enshittification. We don't have a viable third option.

It will only be a matter of time before these tech companies start having brain drains due to their own greed.

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[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 week ago (12 children)

as a high schooler with a special interest in computers, it's genuinely surprising how poor most of my peers computers skills are. most of my peers don't even know the very basics of folder structures.

also unrelated, let's all love lain

[–] [email protected] 69 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

special interest

poor skill of peers

(I'm totally with you though)

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I blame google for the demise of well-organized folders. Their approach to email was "chuck it all in one big folder named Archive, and you can search for it using keywords that you will definitely remember when you need to find it again!"

It's a useful tool, but paved the way for the current state of affairs where people get overwhelmed by their email because they have 150,000 unread emails in their inbox and as a result, don't read an email until you tell them the entire contents of their email via the inferior messaging platform known as texting.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Idk. I blame Apple, and Android hasn't done much to really bolster the need for file folders (not a bad thing, just lack of opportunity for learning).

But Apple actively prohibits its user base from engaging with folders, and has been for well over a decade - plenty long enough for my (millennial) generation to phase it out and for the generations after to never need them in the first place. Plus, emails aren't dependent on file paths, whereas systems file paths are completely necessary.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Twenty years ago when I was 13, I started doing web stuff. This was back when everything was super simple, so everything to get a webserver up was super manual. I'll mention port forwarding at my current job and there's this slice of people that are 28-40 years old that know what I'm talking about.

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[–] [email protected] 77 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I think the gap stems from need. Most people only learn what they absolutely need to. My sister and I are just 3 years apart in age. Yet I am pretty familiar with tech, while she knows next to nothing. I was always there to fix whatever broke. Even now she knows that if she needs to watch something, she can just ask me to add it to my Jellyfin server. I often have to remote into her system to fix stuff.

The Gen Z we're talking about here mostly grew up using phones, and phone OSes do their best to hide any complexity away from the user. So they never learnt anything. I'm also technically Gen Z (very early), but growing up in rural India, I had to teach myself how to pirate since streaming wasn't a thing yet (our internet was too slow for that anyway), and the local theater didn't play anything except local mainstream cinema.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Jellyseerr is your friend. She can request whatever and you can get alerts to add it. Even if your stuff isn't automated

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 week ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 week ago (4 children)

No.

I've pointed this out on another account on this very community through KBin Social.

And I was talking about how lazy and entitled pirates across all ages have become overtime. That we were losing more and more sources that had withstood a long standing of time. And one moment everyone is going "RAH RAH! HYDRA! CUT ONE DOWN AND MORE COME UP!" but when we lose some of which that have yet to return or take it's place, the attitude grows weak. Almost desperate.

And it's due in part how most of the pirates just take and take, but never give back. On r/piracy and sometimes on here, people are making posts wondering where they can get free stuff and how they can get free stuff. They don't care about the technicalities, they don't care about the cause of piracy, they don't care at all. It's always "give me free shit, thanks, bye". There are few pirates out there doing the work and it's just so that these lazy and entitled pirates can just take and take.

But when we lose sources, they scatter away like cockroaches and all that they can think about is asking where it is that they can get free shit. It's almost like consumerism but for free shit, it's annoyingly disturbing. It's not about wanting the new product, it's about wanting the source to mooch off from.

I sadly predict in time that the whole hydra ideology will just simply become the way the Pirate Bay has become, just a symbol, but will it mean anything? It'll be so if this whole trend continues and all generations are just as guilty to doing it.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago

The best pirates are librarians with legit ethics.

Preserve human knowledge and make it available to everyone.

I hate that you are right about mostly just greedy dipshits pissing in the high seas without contributing.

We should have taken up arms after Aaron Swartz...

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 week ago

I agree with the sentiment that it's very easy to underestimate the harm done by the loss of a major site or scene group, but I'm not sure I really agree with much else you've written here. In particular:

And it’s due in part how most of the pirates just take and take, but never give back. On r/piracy and sometimes on here, people are making posts wondering where they can get free stuff and how they can get free stuff. They don’t care about the technicalities, they don’t care about the cause of piracy, they don’t care at all. It’s always “give me free shit, thanks, bye”.

The people making those posts have minimal exposure to piracy. This is getting your feet wet. For me, contributing my share is saying that I think these users deserve access. Yeah, they wouldn't have a place on a private tracker, that's not a problem because they're not on a private tracker, and if they join one they won't stay for long if they neglect seeding.

I'm sure a lot of these people will continue their lives without seeding or contributing. I won't say I endorse that, but I'm cool with it, and even if I wasn't I still don't think an argument can made that the harms of any hypothetical injustice here outweigh the benefits from a single dedicated pirate that began their journey this way.

I care about uploader counts, about seeder counts, about the wellbeing of the people who maintain the infrastructure. I'm invested. I don't care about download counts. Looking at an unseeded download as a loss in seeder count makes exactly the same amount of sense to me as looking at a download as a lost sale. I think it's morally right to support pirates who will not end up contributing, and beyond that I think treating them with kindness a net plus for the cause, because less than 100% of them will just say “give me free shit, thanks, bye”.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 week ago (9 children)

It’s like cars. Almost everyone has one and can drive it but don’t know how it works. Computers have become that. There are some who know or have an idea of how it works and others who can use it but have no idea.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I can't even tell you what us Gen Xers did because I am not sure if the statutes of limitations have run.

Vaguely, it involved ftp and file repositories hosted unwittingly by large companies plus restricted IRC channels to discuss the locations of such places.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago

I remember installing a keylogger on the school library computers, then "accidentally" disconnecting the dialup internet and asking the teacher to type the login credentials again. I bet the ISP was confused when they saw so many concurrent logins after hours, all playing Quake and downloading huge files.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I seen teens without being able to make a folder in windows because they only use phones, so.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I truly hate that phones don't readily have file browsers and folders, and when you do add them, they aren't effective. Mostly that would be useful when moving files between phone and computer. It's not simple even to get the computer to mount the phone's drive, probably because everyone is fine with having all their files "in the cloud."

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Super annoying because all the earlier smart phones did have all that, even early Android. The OSes just keep getting more dumbed down and locked down to the point that I went from a phone enthusiast to despising all smart phones.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Teach those that dont know and continue to seed. 🏴‍☠️🛶

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

No most millennials are also too lazy because they stopped giving a shit about computers when it stopped being a requirement to use the internet like 10-15 years ago because smartphones.

Most who did haven't in at least a decade, and wouldn't unless you put a gun to their head.

For some reason the vast majority of people seem to just want to ignore the machines that literally run our society, and its fucking maddening.

FFS the amount of people who I work with in IT and even then don't really give a shit about they're daily computing is absolutely fucking baffling.

Its really just a smattering of people from all ages who actually know how to use a computer because they're actually interested in doing so.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Without seeds, torrents become almost useless, and many pirate sites offer rare and hard-to-find movies/animes whose torrent versions never download because their seeds are practically extinct forever. So I don't think this is a weak complaint. If torrents didn't have this weakness I would always choose to use them but...

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The usenet has many treasures

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm gen z born in the early 200xs and I torrent (legal Linux ISOs ofc)

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

How else are you going to get your hands on the latest build of Hannah Montana Linux?

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago

Some people just stick to the ez pz apps and don't care about their privacy or to understand what they're working with. With modern phones and pc's that treat people like toddlers, a lot of people don't develop skills further than that

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Idk, being born in the early 2000s didn't make torrenting any harder. Dare I say, it was the opposite: in the 10s, when I got into all this this, there already was a bunch of well-established trackers with tons of content one could use without fear of downloading a piece of malware instead of a new shiny game, for example.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Honestly as a German, torrenting seems to be way too risky. Internet providers will immediately cave when they are contacted about an IP adress they control and there are multiple law firms whose only business model seems to be sending out c&d letters.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago

Hats off for our poor German friends. It's definitely not easy over there, but if you do the private torrent tracker + VPN combo, you can be relatively safe.

Rightsholders have seeders sitting in public torrents to grab IPs to sue about. Private trackers are essentially a "club" that only invites known users, (friends of friends) and as such, fewer (not zero) rightsholders are able to join, and as such, fewer instances of being referred to a lawfirm simply because there isn't anyone in the swarm who is a rightsholder who only wants your IP... because they don't invite those kind of people most of the time.

Rightsholders like how hanging fruit like public torrents. Private trackers help take a lot of the stress away.

However, I don't know how it works in Germany so maybe rightsholders over there are more zealous.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago (3 children)

If you had real shitty internet back in the day (read 56k modem) and you liked to play russian roulette you would dump satellite traffic with a skystar2 DVB-S card. You never knew what you'd get realistically, found some true gems underneath mountains of coal in the day of (still) unfiltered internet.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Boy, I remember how desperate all of Germany was when kino.to went down. It took at least a week until everyone found an alternative!

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The switch from using shit like Napster/LimeWire/eDonkey/etc to BitTorrent was fairly easy. It was the lack of the torrent app itself not having a file search in it that made things feel like they went backwards.

Before Napster and the rest, you'd do a web search for "warez" and sift through shady sites to find a working download link. After Napster, you'd just search for what you want in the app. I know there are torrent apps that do this now, but I don't know how wide of a reach they actually have. I still just go to a tracker's website and find things to magnet link.

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