this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2024
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Transphobia in the fediverse (discuss.online)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/12273255

I've only been on Lemmy a few days and I've already witnessed a lot of thinly veiled transphobia, anything from people dismissing the existence of trans people, to trying to claim we are predators. I've also seen people downvoted in the general communities for expressing trans support, or seemingly for no reason other than simply being openly trans or visibly queer. I know it's an ongoing effort to moderate transphobia on Lemmy, and the fediverse as a whole. We have to also address mentions of thinly veiled transphobia and transphobic users. Transphobia isn't just a differing opinion, it is a dangerous hateful sentiment which causes harm to vulnerable people and it needs to be addressed, at the instance and community level. We need to put in the effort to identify transphobic dogwhistles and language used by transphobes to eradicate this type of behavior from our communities and servers alike.

Some people will argue that the light stuff isn't something to worry about, but that's not true. This is a tactic they use to blend in with normies and make them think that nothing they are doing or saying is wrong. It's what transphobic right-wing YouTubers and Facebook users do to avoid being banned for hate speech. We are better than these corporations though, Fediverse is run by communities and for the users, we should not let these things slide as easily as Corporations do, they're in it to make money, we... We're in it to create a community for the users. Part of that means kicking out those who don't have all our best interests at heart.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Use the report button also to report transphobia, so we can get to it asap.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

lol when are you gonna "get to" this one?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Really wish I could hear an explanation for keeping Nutomic around when there is blatant transphobia. Either a public apology or something along those lines, it's clear Nutomic has made trans users feel unsafe and that goes against the stated anti-transphobia aims.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I can't understand the strain of "socially conservative Communism" (for lack of a better term). One of the Communist parties here in the UK, CPGB-ML, also declared "LGBT ideology" to be bourgeois and anti-Marxist. Greece's KKE also has a history of anti-LGBTQ stances.

Doesn't add up for these groups to be taking stances against marginalised people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

It's an utter failure in understanding Marxism, trans liberation is a firmly Marxist position. Communist Parties in the Imperial Core tend to have the worst takes imaginable because they are largely detached from the International Movement as they are made up of Labor Aristocracy.

The UK in general is TERF island, so it's not hard to see why their views suck.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Underdeveloped take from Dessalines: the bourgeoisie love to promote bigotry while covering themselves in a cloak of progressivism

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (12 children)

Also very reactionary of him to be bent out of shape over the whole "biological men competing in women's sports" thing. Wonder what he thinks of the fact he shares that opinion with fascists?

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Posts like this make me glad for my instance

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

I do not think the future of the fediverse lies in general purpose instances but that said, IMO Beehaw is the gold standard of a general purpose instance.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I read a post earlier tonight from tumbler that made me uncomfortably aware that I am naive when it comes to dog whistles and other subtleties people use to spread their hate. It laid out examples of things people are saying, and explained why they’re bad.

I know I would find it helpful and educational to know where you’re coming from, and to see the examples you’re speaking about.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago

Sure I can provide some examples:

I just wish they wouldn't force their gender and pronouns onto other people

Translation: Doesn't believe trans people are valid and doesn't think people should respect our preferred pronouns

I just think that they need to keep it to themselves and leave kids out of it

Translation: Doesn't believe we should exist in public, that we are a threat to children by virtue of being transgender.

It's important to protect women's spaces

Translation: Trans women shouldn't be allowed to use the same spaces cis women use

There's also more subtle ones such as people referring to cis women as real women, or referring to the transgender movement as gender ideology. The first one is wrong because trans women are real women, and the second one is wrong because transgender isn't a religion or organization like a church. They are calling it an ideology so they can pretend there is an institution to fight against, in reality transgender people just exist and want to live our lives.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Hexbear is easily the most trans-positive instance, and it isn't close. Strictly anti-chaser, pro-trans, there's even a cis/trans questionaire that shows trans and trans-questioning members outnumber cis members when put together.

Lemmy.ml's trans community has fantastic mods, but unfortunately Lemmy.ml itself isn't as protective of its trans users. I try to report transphobia when I see it, but I see a lot more transphobia on Lemmy.ml than I do on Hexbear.net, which is a symptom more of the userbase than the mods IMO.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'd say "and it isn't close" is a bit disingenuous when instances like beehaw and blahaj exist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (5 children)

That's fair to bring up, but from speaking to trans comrades on Hexbear.net it seems Blahaj doesn't do a great job protecting trans users, despite the focus of the instance, due to issues with some troublesome moderators. That's ignoring the whole anti-Marxism thing Blahaj has going on, of course, I don't think that's entirely relevant but wanted to bring it up to put it to rest.

Beehaw is interesting, it's a micro-instance so I am not sure how to judge it. Hexbear is many times larger than both Blahaj and Beehaw and yet manages to have 0 transphobia, which is an achievement even if we assume neither Beehaw nor Blahaj have transphobia either.

The overall activity, diversity in content across communities, and mandatory pronoun listing in Hexbear is at the top of trans-inclusivity and protection in Lemmy instances, that's pretty much undeniable.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Forcing pronoun disclosure is not necessarily helpful to the trans community, especially those questioning. Do you guys have a questioning tag or something? We have a few users bouncing around on Beehaws for instance that don't concieve of themselves as human. This stuff is complicated.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (14 children)

The fediverse isn’t one thing and lemmy in particular is censorship proof, meaning there isn’t much you can do besides tailoring your own experience and filtering the feed to suit you. My instance doesn’t federate with lemmy.world or lemmy.ca because they are not well run instances without any oversight to their users and it’s mostly spam. My instance also fully disables downvotes because they are all spam as well.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Admins indeed can deal with these users, by deleting their content from their instances, and banning them from the site, if they are homed on that specific instance they get banned everywhere when that happens. So it can be dealt with but it takes work from our admins, and since these are communities run by real people and not monolithic corporations, we can speak up and make a difference. Reach out to these admins who are real people.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Admins can, I do on vegantheoryclub.org but lemmy.world and lemmy.ca will not. The admins don’t agree with your take and aren’t going to change their minds so the only recourse you actually have is to invest in and build your own server and federate with who you align with.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry you've had to experience that transphobia on Lemmy. It is unfortunately common. And sometimes it even lurks as internalized transphobia in people that do not think of themselves as transphobjc. For example, there are Lemmy instances that actually promote chasers.

I believe all instances if transphobia should be called out and obvious examples should result in bans. Sometimes it is good to let people have a chance to accept criticism and retract but I am biased towards more often banning. Comments that are transphobic should also be removed.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Most people who are transphobic know what they are doing, I'm certain the people I saw do. They're not going to change, they need to be given the boot to protect our communities from becoming Nazi bars.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Oh yes, sorry if I implied giving these particular people a break. I was speaking more generally but miscommunicated. The people you mentioned should all be banned in my opinion.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Following the discussion here as the LW thread got locked

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Just as well, the Lemmy.world one was filled with transphobes and transphobia apologists. No progress to be made there unfortunately.

Lemmy.world might be a lost cause, maybe defederation of .world should be more widely considered...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

The lemmy.world thread reminds me of a similar "racism on the fediverse" thread, and the occasional thread about misogyny (dismissive, uninterested and/or personally offended)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

More like reddit.world

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It does have all the worst qualities of Reddit, including the hate speech and the hateful downvotes, I saw many people on Reddit heavily downvoted in unrelated threads because they were openly trans on their profile. I've unfortunately seen the same thing on Lemmy from Lemmy.world comment sections and that's just in the first 5 days of being here.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think it's because it was the main instance that redditeurs moved to during the big the exodus.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (8 children)

.world is a hellhole, agreed

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

vegan theory club defedded world and while I miss some content the quality of commentator went up dramatically. Yeah I see some stuff I disagree with and I'm sure I bother some people too, sometimes accidentally ;) but that place is a fucking cesspit.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Typical LW L. From the mods literally admitting to being anti-Marxist to failing to protect trans users, LW is sowing its own destruction.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. This is just typical liberal progression.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yep, the mods have even openly expressed disdain for Marxism, referring to it as "a phase in college." When you take a deliberately anti-Leftist stance, you become a welcoming space for the far-right, hence why instances that block Hexbear or Grad tend to be home to the most right-wing individuals on Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

instances that block Hexbear or Grad tend to be home to the most right-wing individuals on Lemmy.

Don't take this as a hard rule. My instance blocks hexbear and we're a bunch of anarchists, we just saw the inter-instance drama and don't want all that noise. Our memes community is often a target of derision for lemmy.world liberals. We tolerate liberals there but we absolutely don't tolerate right-wingers.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Not to be mean or anything but I've seen right-wing and "left" anti-leftism from slrpnk.net, hopefully y'all have cleaned that up more. I think an issue with Solarpunk is that ultimately it's an aesthetic, not an actual strain of Socialism or anything, so it's easy to coopt.

Again, typically blocking Hexbear and Grad is a negative when it comes to the ideas held by the userbase of an instance in my personal experience.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

"left" anti-leftism

I mean, that sounds like your referring to anarchists criticizing authoritarian communism, which is certainly not something slrpnk admins and mods would have any interest in "cleaning up" given they are anarchists themselves. If you meant liberals then I did say that we tolerate them there, at least on the memes community. We believe in outreach.

I think an issue with Solarpunk is that ultimately it's an aesthetic, not an actual strain of Socialism or anything, so it's easy to coopt

That's fair. Solarpunk is primarily an artistic movement, so it is vulnerable to co-optation in the same way that any artistic movement is. IMO socialists are in desperate need of a strong modern artistic movement and if we don't want it to be co-opted we should be embracing it.

Again, typically blocking Hexbear and Grad is a negative when it comes to the ideas held by the userbase of an instance in my personal experience.

Perhaps it was an overreaction, I can't say for sure because I think most of that drama played out before I joined lemmy. I have also never personally experienced right-wing anti-leftism on slrpnk.net so I might assume that we have cleaned that up.

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