Wow, someone has a big problem getting off the apple needle. Quite an ideology.
Did the workers who made the physical device but profit from doing so?
Did the designers who designed the phone also not profit from doing so?
Neither of those groups was slave labor.
The surplus value created by the workers should go to those workers. However in reality, most of the value created by the workers is going to capitalists that did not contribute to the making of the product, which communists consider theft.
No, their labor was "paid" for less than it is worth so they did not profit. The profit was taken by the capitalist class.
The answer is nope! Their labor power was treated the same as any other raw material, the outcome of the sale did not wrap back to their hands.
Wait what? Of course the outcome of the sale wrapped back to their hands. They wouldn't have a job if there were no sale.
The immense profits or lack of profits do not change the worker's compensation. They can find a new job, but whether there is feast or famine with respect to sales they do not profit.
Right. The designers and the majority of the workers ~~are capitalists~~ practice capitalism by participating in a capitalist society. Some of the workers ~~are communists~~ practice communism. That is true.
So it’s capitalism with a scosche of communism.
The designers and the majority of the workers are capitalists by participating in a capitalist society
That's…not what a capitalist is. Capitalists control the capital.
I just looked up the definition, and you’re right. Capitalist as a noun differs from the adjective definition, which I thought was the only one. Thanks for the correction.
The term for someone who supports capitalism is liberal.
There's no equivalent between communist meaning someone who's organized and part of a party, vs someone who just passively likes the idea of communism.
In capitalism, you have the capitalists, presiding above all, with made up ideological boundaries to keep them in-fighting. In communism the true boundaries are revealed, between the proletariat, the bourgeoisie, and the plutocrats.
Right. The designers and the majority of the workers are capitalists
What are you trying to say here? That the majority of workers are also the owners?
workers are capitalists by participating in a capitalist society. Some of the workers are communists. That is true.
Oh, you're talking about ideology? Why? Who cares what the workers individually believe, we are talking about the fact that they are workers.
I was referring to the other definition of capitalist, as in a capitalist country. In that case, capitalist is an adjective, and has a different definition.
noun: a wealthy person who uses money to invest in trade and industry for profit in accordance with the principles of capitalism. "the creation of the factory system by nineteenth-century capitalists"
adjective: practicing, supporting, or based on the principles of capitalism. "capitalist countries"
Also, most Apple employees are shareholders. They offer excellent stock options for employees.
I was referring to the other definition of capitalist, as in a capitalist country. In that case, capitalist is an adjective, and has a different definition.
Sure. We don't care about that, though. That's secondary. What we are discussing is that, mechanically, within Capitalism, it is the workers alone that design, mine, ship, build, and sell the phones, not the owners.
Also, most Apple employees are shareholders. They offer excellent stock options for employees.
Petty stock ownership does not a Capitalist make.
Before we go any further, how familiar are you with Marxist theory? We aren't really talking about the same thing here, so establishing a baseline would help.
You’re incorrect. The meme references capitalism, not capitalists. I miswrote my initial statement by using capitalist instead of capitalism. Americans support capitalism by working and paying taxes, even if they’re not capitalists. What the US makes is produced through capitalism unless you’re native or communal.
You’re incorrect.
Nope, I am correct here.
The meme references capitalism, not capitalists.
The meme is made by a Communist, we are specifically talking about how Capitalists are unnecessary because even in Capitalism, the workers do all of the labor.
Americans support capitalism by working and paying taxes, even if they’re not capitalists. What the US makes is produced through capitalism unless you’re native or communal.
No, you're not talking about the same thing here. Workers did all of the labor in creating your phone, it wasn't the Capitalists. We aren't saying Communism produced the phone, but workers.
Again, how familiar are you with Marxism?
Welcome to the communist Lemmy community! This is a community for all Marxist.
