this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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Solarpunk Urbanism
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A community to discuss solarpunk and other new and alternative urbanisms that seek to break away from our currently ecologically destructive urbanisms.
- Henri Lefebvre, The Right to the City — In brief, the right to the city is the right to the production of a city. The labor of a worker is the source of most of the value of a commodity that is expropriated by the owner. The worker, therefore, has a right to benefit from that value denied to them. In the same way, the urban citizen produces and reproduces the city through their own daily actions. However, the the city is expropriated from the urbanite by the rich and the state. The right to the city is therefore the right to appropriate the city by and for those who make and remake it.
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Well why don't all the blue states band together and make it happen? In fact why haven't they done it in the last 40 years or so? What's going on? What are they waiting for? They have power and money to make it happen. They supposedly even have political will? It's almost like it's all talk and nobody wants to do it
There's a number of other studies that show that, overall, letting people go unhoused is far, far more costly than just fucking housing them. It's not just paying for the cops and demo teams to chase them around, you're also paying for excess use of medical services that wouldn't be taking place otherwise, lost revenue because of people wanting to avoid the homeless, and a bunch of other things that all just pile up. It doesn't help that some startups have entered this space and you've got cities like San Francisco paying them something like 40 or 80 thousand a year to keep the homeless in a fenced off area in a tent grid. It doesn't really fix anything, it's just another shitty, expensive band-aid whose funding could have gone to fixing the problem but didn't.
Yes. They should do it like NYC, where it's basically illegal to live on the street. The city is required by law to offer free housing at a certain quality level for anyone who needs it. It's not amazing but you get a door that locks and a security team, plus a bathroom.
If you don't want to sleep inside, you literally have to leave the city. It's not cheap but it works much better than letting people live in tents.
Why the illegal part, though? People don’t really need an incentive to have shelter. It just punishes people who are struggling with even deeper issues.
People don’t really need an incentive to have shelter
Not necessarily true. For example if the place has "no alcohol and no being drunk" policy, some of them will rather stay out.
Right but that’s a choice the shelter can make and not a point against the idea that people, ultimately, won’t really refuse a place to sleep. It’s a more complex issue that takes more time than an evening so rules like “no being drunk” which sound fine don’t really help anyone.
I'd imagine it'd help make the unhoused who don't want to have to deal with drunk people feel a lot safer about using them.
and if you want to use public money on it, then the goal has to be to help them get back to society, to which dealing with problematic behavioral patterns, like substance abuse, is a necessity...
Have you seen alcohol withdrawal?
What's your point? They should continue drinking themselves to death?
You let them continue until they can get a spot in a medical setting where they can safely withdraw.
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that safe setting may very well be the shelter we are talking about
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you are steering away from subject. it is absolutely fair to tell them "being homeless and nuisance in the street is from now on illegal. either you want help to get back to society and then you will accept the help with its terms - you are really not in a position to make demands - or you can move to some unabomber cabin in the middle of nowhere, and there you can do whatever you want"
So you want to create an alternate society in the wilds?
Well that's one I haven't thought about since the last time I read Brave New World and thought, good thing we'd never do that.
Not what I wrote
it is absolutely fair to tell them "being homeless and nuisance in the street is from now on illegal. either you want help to get back to society and then you will accept the help with its terms - you are really not in a position to make demands - or you can move to some unabomber cabin in the middle of nowhere, and there you can do whatever you want
This you?
you’ve got cities like San Francisco paying them something like 40 or 80 thousand a year to keep the homeless in a fenced off area in a tent grid
Star Trek DS9 predicting the future yet again