Every gun owner thinks they're a responsible gun owner.
this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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Loaded gun in a car door pocket? I don't think these people considered themselves responsible gun owners.
No, I think they did. That's the problem.
They probably considered themselves responsible parents as well.
It's terrifyingly common where i live, though people who do it think it's common sense self-protection.
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Here's a story for you. I've only really held a gun once, at a camp riflery range (very small calibers). I still end up doing a fair amount of gun research for understanding gun debates / safety practices, research for fiction where characters have to talk about guns, etc.
I have had to correct other Reddit users that are gun owners, about the workings of basic single-action revolvers, in a very deep/long thread. I briefly doubted myself and checked my own sources, and yes, I was correct and the gun owner was persisting off the idea I was wrong. I'm sure there's some responsible owners out there, but the fact there are so many bull-headed idiots about their guns, who still say they're responsible, should scare anyone.
The specific topic, if you're interested, was on the situation where an old-style revolver is loaded and cocked by an inexperienced user, who then wants to safely decock/unload the gun without firing it (at that point, the cylinder is locked so basic approaches won't work). Feel free to look it up - the approach needed there is pretty damn stupid.
I had a girlfriends father insist on taking the whole family to the gun range as a "fun day out thing". Not my thing, but why say no to new experience? Besides her dad had always openly carried so it was clearly something HE was into, so being invited to family time with him felt like a kindness
But oh joy, was I thankful that a gun instructor was there, literally everything her dad said was corrected. From hand placement, to how to load to how to stand. The guy nearly kicked dad off the range at one point for having a loaded gun facing his kid.
Thankfully I never had to suffer his company since we broke up later, but it was a very eye opening experince. Being INTO guns definitely does not correlate with safe usage.
I don't handle guns, I just like westerns and play too many video games:
Don't you have to hold the hammer while you pull the trigger to decock it? The trigger unlocks it, but because you're holding the hammer it doesn't strike the shell?
So in order to safely disarm you have to pull the trigger, which sure sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Exactly right. It’s possible there are some newer revolver models that have fixed that quirk of design, but that’s been true of all the ones I looked up YouTube videos on.
Yeah, modern ones have a decocker to fix that problem. I've never looked up how they work exactly. I do know that some revolvers also have a little piece that comes up to block the hammer from striking.
The historic design is certainly unsafe, but in those days, guns were rare and expensive enough that if you had one, you were already going to be trained on it. (Also, compared to a semi-auto pistol slide spring, revolver hammer springs are surprisingly weak. The only time I've had to do it, in a safety class, I was using so much force to hold the hammer up, I didn't realize I had to let off to let it down.)
These people also left their 2 year old in the car by himself while they shopped.
These people are fucking morons, gun or no gun.
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Every word of that sentence made it worse. Flip those patents straight to heck
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that sentence got more American with every word
I don't leave my carry gun around my adult GF or untrained friends.....everything else is locked up. WTF
Not a gun owner myself, so curious, is your carry gun not always locked up when not on your person?
I live alone, so it only is if I am not around.
If I leave and the GF(untrained for the time being) is home, or if there is family or kids present, it is either on my person and safed, or locked up in a biometric safe.
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FrEeDoM
I hate every single part about this headline.
Im sorry, what?
Also what? The grandmother started a gofundme to pay for the funeral costs, so ‘the parents can grieve’?
Idiots or not they still grieve.
Yeah I definitely don't get the "what" factor in that.
Funerals aren't free and they might not have the money for it, so not having to pay for it would take some burden off them. Yes, they did something incredibly stupid but they've already paid an incalculable price for it.
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The question of whether we need to be armed to be capable of defending ourselves against tyrannical governments coming for our lives should have come after the question of whether we are capable of defending ourselves against ourselves.
It’s unclear if the parents – identified by family as Sam Odums and Laileighauna Parks – will face charges in the incident.
The owner absolutely should be charged. Clearly the gun was unsecured.
Also, it was over 90°F in Douglas, GA. You don't leave a fucking toddler in your car with that kind of heat.
Even if the AC was left on, I'd have never left my kid in the car alone at 2. So many ways that can go wrong.
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I feel like even if there was no gun, this toddler would have died from being left alone in a car in the summer time.
For everyone focusing on the toddler alone in a hot car part. This was a fireworks stand. So they were probably 10 to 20 feet away. We can hope they opened the windows, which would make it roughly the same temp as where they were. So let's refocus on the gun please.
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I have a serious question here that I always get when I read news like this. As someone not from the US but having experience with guns through my military training, how is it that toddlers can even pull the trigger of a weapon?
When we had the training for the pistol it was difficult to pull the trigger. IIRC it was even stated that this was by design so that you can't pull the trigger by accident.
Are there no regulations for such a thing in the US or are toddlers that strong to do it anyway?
In addition to what people are saying about trigger pull weight there are an unfortunate number of people that think reducing trigger pull weight to pointlessly low numbers is cool. If you’re a competition shooter it might be worth it to a point, but anyone leaving a handgun unsecured and accessible in a vehicle isn’t a person who takes firearms seriously.
There are a ton of different kinds of pistols, and all have varying types of trigger weight. If you trained in a EU military, you probably trained with something like a Beretta 92 or CZ 75, both of which have a double action/single action ("DA/SA") design, where the long DA is a safety feature. After the first shot, the gun will be in SA mode, with a much lighter weight for easier follow-up shots. One can also put a DA/SA gun into SA mode by chambering a round and cocking the hammer. Most consider this to be an unsafe way to carry a pistol without a further manual safety (both the Beretta and CZ have one for carrying in this manner).
Glock is the most common pistol make in the US, and they use a striker fired design. A striker fired pistol is typically equipped with a medium-weight trigger - lighter than a DA pull, but not as light as a SA.
Because the toddler shot himself in the chest, he was also likely using his thumbs, rather than index finger on the trigger. I think a toddler would easily have the strength to pull a striker trigger, and definitely a SA.
Granted, this is now almost a decade now but I was trained with the HK P8 which, according to what I can find, has a trigger weight of 24N (SA) and 55N (DA)
This would be 2.4kg force or 5.6kg force needed for pulling the trigger.
But as you said, it would make sense that even this is easily overcome depending on how you pull the trigger and the thumbs would be stronger doing that, especially with both hands.
My American brain can only understand lbs, but converting it, 5.6kg = more than 12lbs, which is on the high end even for DA guns. I believe both the Sig 226 and CZ 75 are around 9-10lbs in DA. For comparison, Glocks have about a 6lb trigger pull, which would be barely heavier than your P8's SA trigger weight.
Highspeed man-children making it a hair-trigger so they can fight off an assault squad of gangsters.
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As an advocate of the 2nd amendment who thinks gun regulations need to be more strict assessing theental health of anyone purchasing a gun, I find it very hard to believe parents who leave a child in a hot car with a loaded gun to both go into a store to shop could pass any test of their fucking mental stability. This had to be premeditated whether they can prove it legally. Someone else in the thread said it was 90F when this happened so when you add it all up, a toddler was left out if their carseat, with a loaded gun, in either a running vehicle the kid could've kicked into gear accidently or in a vehicle that wasn't running on a fucking 90 degree day. Way too many cognizant decisions were made to not charge them with 1st degree murder.
As a non-American, it's crazy to me that there (apparently) aren't any safe storage laws enforced. Would it really infringe people's gun rights to require that all firearms may only be in a safe, in your hands, or on your person (in a holster, sling, etc.)?
About half of US states have safe storage laws. You can probably guess which ones. Surprisingly, both Texas and Florida are both on this list, though, so credit where it's due.
The enforcement of those laws is another story, though. And to be fair, enforcement can be difficult. You can always charge them with a safe storage violation after an incident happens and police/EMS/etc enter the home legally, but otherwise, nobody is coming into your home to ensure that you're locking up your guns properly. It's illegal without a warrant, and surprise safety checks aren't something you can issue a warrant for.
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Maybe the kid killed himself so he wouldn't have to slowly die of heat stroke because his idiot parents left him alone in a car (edit: WITH A LOADED GUN WHAT THE FUCK) in a Walmart parking lot.
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