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is the man or bear thing rhetorically or optically the perfect feminist meme that is beyond criticism? no.
but is it leaps and bounds better at getting men to understand the material consequences of patriarchy on the physical and emotional health of women than that stupid “kill all men” meme from last decade? definitely.
I'm so glad to see this posted. The whole meme of bear vs man made me feel at odds and while I saw what the point was that it tried to raise it still didn't really do a great job to me. After a lot of thinking about it and discussing it in other threads I finally understood what I feel is the issue. While the answer given by most (if not all) women is shocking and shows the feeling of uncertainty and unsafeness the question is framed in such a way that it creates division and sexism. The problem is not what women are answering, the issue is that it puts men on the other side without any more thought. It divides us into women vs either men or bears. I'm not a woman, I'm not a bear, and I don't want to be a man seen as a danger. I understand the issue and I want to be part of the solution and create a safer world for everyone.
This whole topic wouldn't have made me see the problem if it wasn't for the effect that other ways to raise awareness have had in the past. For me the greatest method to raise awareness was the #metoo movement. That's when I could see the issue and what kind of effect it has. It was a movement that didn't automatically make me feel excluded, it was a movement that raised awareness of the victims, but it didn't have to be only women, also men that had been victims could raise it if they felt empowered by it. It was horrifying seeing the spread of it, and then there must be all the ones that didn't say anything. That's a movement I can get behind, that's the way to raise awareness. Since then I try to be more aware of the kind of behavior that creates those feelings of unsafeness for women and if I would ever notice something done by others I'd try to step up. The whole man vs bear is terrible at doing the same.
Billionaires are laughing in their private jets while people bicker over stupid memes about gender.
Funny, but don’t ever forget the #MeToo movement.
Awareness and advocacy may seem pointless until it precipitates in holding the oppressors accountable. Next time, hopefully, it will be even more significant.
Funny, but don't forget the Occupy Wall Street movement.
The ruling class will stop at nothing to maintain their grip on power.
Canceling a few actors, and Harvey Weinstein, has had no beneficial systemic effect on society or women.
A Walmart clerk who is sexually harassed by her supervisor is in no better position today than she was prior to MeToo
But a lot of rich white women got to receive social media attention from it. So that's nice.
Billionaires are laughing in their private jets
I think the sad thing is that they generally tend to be pretty unhappy from what I've seen
I was discussing this whole "safer with a bear" thing with my wife earlier, and she agreed that it was more about the bear will almost always just fuck off and leave you alone. Imo, the problem is the lack of social (third) spaces in the West, particularly anglo-North America. The only places left where you can encounter a potential romantic partner are in their home or in a place of business, and both are generally unacceptable for romantic solicitation. We've even managed to largely flush the Internet as a meaningful third space. So, folks are left with the choice of committing a social faux pas or being lonely, which is kind of a shit choice.
If we brought back third spaces whose sole purpose was socializing and community-building, we'd probably see stuff like the "safer with bear" sentiment disappate.
valid insight, maybe not the full picture, but still valid.
important to know that the vast majority of perpetrators of sexual violence are acquaintances of the victim, and aren’t strangers. so third spaces might certainly help, but don’t address the primary issue.
I would add though, that (a) those statistics do exclude non-violent sexual harassment (which is more likely from strangers), and (b) that sexual violence is massively underreported, especially when the perpetrator is unknown, since the chances of anything being able to be done about it are extremely low
I would agree but stipulate, unpaid third places. Third places still exist, they're just all monetized. Hang out at the movie theater, gotta buy a ticket, hang out at a concert, gotta buy a ticket, hang out anywhere around town, you're loitering and there's nothing really there, hang out at the mall, everyone's trying to sell you stuff and there's only just stuff to buy. There's maybe the park and the library left, which aren't exactly the most hot of spots.
The image you posted has a good sentiment, and I don't think it's effective as a meme itself. What will make it stick in the viewer's mind? To me it doesn't have a joke and doesn't make enough sense to convey a new insight.
You're right, feminism is for everyone. How does the introduction of Bell Hooks explain that or prove it to the reader? Who is the new character in the bottom right corner? Their instant agreement with Bell doesn't make sense given the preceding text.
ur confused and thats my fault sorry. by “this meme” i was referring to the man vs bear thing. the body text is about the popular in-joke going around.
Lol the meme is supposed to encourage you to Google those people. Bell Hooks is an excellent scholarly source on how patriarchy negatively impacts men.
How you gonna come in here and critique a meme because you don't feel like googling tho lol.
They're critiquing the structure more than the content
Who draws these wojacks?
Bottom left might be one of my favourite wojaks yet. I love all the different depictionsof this meme!!
Reading bell hooks back in the day made me interested in understanding feminism. Things like the bear makes me go do other things and care less.
easy solution is to read bell hooks today too :)
You know, that's a good idea.
Things like the bear makes me go do other things and care less.
Isn't that sort of the joke? Had the original social impulse to "I'd rather meet a bear in the woods than a man" been to just shrug and walk away, virtually nobody here would have known the comment was made.
Sadly, more people want to engage with random internet rage-bait and pseudo-sociology than a fact-based, logically laid out research and policy report.
I guess. It invoked some emotion for sure, something that research and policies usually don't. For me, I still don't know what to do differently. I've heard the statistics and it's scary and sad. I want women to be safe and equal and all that. But what's the plan here, which path leads to a different world? Does it help if I just sit around and feel bad about myself? I don't think so. It just alienates me from half of the human population. But what actually helps? The message I receive is mostly just "feel bad about yourself."
But what’s the plan here, which path leads to a different world?
It helps when people aren't chronically alienated from one another. Growing up in a big family or in a neighborhood where you've got friends all along the block helps people to get to know and empathize with one another at an early age. You get to move through your moody adolescent phase surrounded by peers and see the real social consequences of being an asshole up front, rather than having anonymous channels through which you can vent your worst impulses without consequence.
But what actually helps?
Real actual socializing with other human beings. Empathy is just another kind of muscle. You gotta use it if you want to do any kind of heavy lifting. Otherwise, the occasional emotional contact with another person feels impossibly hard.
in a critical situation like this, finding another human at all is probably riskier than any animal.
most animals will just fuck off while humans will remember you and find a way to fuck you for their gain. all that in a smart way that you wont be able to stop with just a pointy stick or something.
If I was lost in the woods, a human would be more likely to have cell phone service or know the way out. And realistically, it’s just going to be some hiker or birder, which from what I’ve seen are generally welcoming groups.
most animals will just fuck off while humans will remember you and find a way to fuck you for their gain.
I gotta disagree. In my experience, most humans will also fuck off.
But its a numbers game. We meet a lot of humans and some of them provoke intense experiences that are deeply memorable. However, we almost never meet any bears.
Honestly most humans will be centered at escaping the forest if they don't know where to go, or guiding you out if they do. That's it.
I'd choose the bear. A bear would probably leave me alone if i yell at it and make myself look big. A human would probably cry if i did that to them.
edit: also, can i just stay in the forest? Do I have to find a way out?
I feel like this exchange from 30 Rock is relevant here:
I forget the exact context for the scene, but Kenneth disagrees with Jack and objects that he [Kenneth] is also a white man. Jack corrects him that he is not and is, socio-economically speaking, an inner-city Latina.
Jack represents the patriarchy/ruling money class in the show.
Depends what you mean by feminism if you mean feminism as equality for all then great.
If you mean feminism as you see a lot of today then maybe not. The fact you never see feminism calling out shitty, toxic female behaviour shows a lot of the picture is missing.
Holding up everything that lives under the feminism banner as infallible is dangerous. Plenty of low income white guys have been pushed aside for feminism and then told they have all this privilege for living in a place with no economic prospects and they are responsible for how the world was made before they were born.
if you see “feminists” excusing shitty behavior, call them the fuck out for it. im not holding everything under the banner of feminism infallible and you shouldn’t either.
but bad feminists don’t excuse you inserting yourself into a conversation women are having about their lived experiences. and that is precisely what you are doing.
women are expressing that they have been threatened and hurt, and you are stomping in with some vague “NUH UH a feminist was mean once or twice” to shut up those women. this is, and i don’t say this lightly, despicable.