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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/15035901
The only surviving adult MOVE member, Ramona Africa, refused to testify in court and was charged and convicted on charges of riot and conspiracy; she served seven years in prison.
Jesus Christ! No criminal charges against police so let's imprison the sole surviving victim!
(She did get a handsome settlement years later, so there's that but holy hell man)
Devil's Advocacy, read at your own risk:
According to the police, they evacuated the civilians from the area and engaged in a gunfight with the compound which housed known terrorists called MOVE, an anti-government and anti-technology religious organization whose members were all black and changed their last names to Africa as a form of symbolism who had years earlier killed a police officer leading to a lifelong conviction for 9 of it's members.
The terrorists were armed with automatic weapons and a gas generator on the roof of the compound. After the 2 small bombs opened a hole on the roof and took out the generator, the terrorists supposedly even shot at firefighters who approached the scene which allowed the fire to spread. 61 home burnt with Six adults and five children as fatalities.
My take: The police should not have automatic anti-tank rifles or C4 Satchel Bombs. They should never have attempted to preemptively remove MOVE members from any residence, regardless of the status of their parole. This is not the job for people with less training than the people who cut hair for a living. The city held on to some of the corpses for 35 years, and all of the children were cremated and buried in unmarked graves, which is pretty fucked up.
But also, I'm certainly not on MOVE's side in this situation. Those morons fucked around and found out. The fact that there are people around today who know about all this and wanted to pick up that banner for themselves is beyond moronic.
*terrorists as labeled by the fucking mayor...
We got goddamned Vote Quimby down here deciding who's a terrorist because they got warrants, trash, and a bullhorn being a public nuisance.
Edit: -Terrorists armed with a... gas generator (commence pearl clutching)
-what the actual fucking fuck did the Keystone Kops think would happen if they dropped explosives on the gas generator in hopes of "taking out the "rooftop bunker"" which was most likely the goddamned rooftop access. They had to know. And if the didn't, they were criminally stupid.
-you mention that anyone picking up their banner today is (some derogatory term I forget). Can you really not see why someone would look to extremes when faced with systemic oppression?
-and: 2A rights for everyone! "oh, only WASPy, good, christian tightey-whitey men, sorry - not you... When any minority holds a gun they're obviously criminals." and yes, I know there were warrants and shootouts in this case. But justice wasn't served.
I see a cult with a fortified compound and armed soldiers, with multiple missed paroles and a history of armed violence going back over a decade. If they're not terrorist then what the fuck are they?
They are also victims, none of the things that occurred on May 13th should have ever happened with competent and respectful leadership and negotiation perhaps by the FBI or actual service members, but being a victim doesn't erase every stupid indecent thing people have ever done.
Those children died in the cult's basement. MOVE continued shooting at Firefighters after their roof burst into flames.
Idk, I'm several drinks in atm, but you'd make big money picking cherries.
*terrorists as labeled by the fucking mayor... a terrorist because they got warrants, trash, and a bullhorn being a public nuisance.
Alos Warrants for making terroristic threats, illegal possession of firearms, parole violations, contempt of court
Terrorists armed with a... gas generator (commence pearl clutching)
And automatic weapons. You used the ... to erase the automatic weapons part.
what the actual fucking fuck did the Keystone Kops think would happen if they dropped explosives on the gas generator in hopes of "taking out the "rooftop bunker"" which was most likely the goddamned rooftop access. They had to know. And if the didn't, they were criminally stupid.
Wow, not knowing where people store their generators is the bar for criminal stupidity? I have a different bar
and: 2A rights for everyone! "oh, only WASPy, good, christian tightey-whitey men, sorry - not you... When any minority holds a gun they're obviously criminals." and yes, I know there were warrants and shootouts in this case. But justice wasn't served.
Ah yes, story we hear every week outta murica, them white folks, shooting their automatic assault rifles at the cops and getting away with it
/s
Seriously, if you start a business picking cherries, I'd like to invest, I haven't seen anyone so skilled since 2020
Qualified fucking immunity
Yet another thing to go after the revolution.
Don't need qualified immunity if there are no cops left.
Damn straight
The police obtained arrest warrants in 1985 charging four MOVE occupants with crimes including parole violations, contempt of court, illegal possession of firearms, and making terroristic threats. Mayor Wilson Goode and police commissioner Gregore J. Sambor classified MOVE as a terrorist organization. Police evacuated residents of the area from the neighborhood prior to their action. Residents were told that they would be able to return to their homes after a 24-hour period.
There was an armed standoff with police, who threw tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them, and a gunfight with semi-automatic and automatic firearms ensued for 90 minutes... At 2 p.m., Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.
From a Pennsylvania State Police helicopter, Philadelphia Police Department proceeded to drop two 1.5-pound bombs (which the police referred to as "entry devices") made of Tovex, a dynamite substitute, combined with two pounds of FBI-supplied C-4, targeting a fortified, bunker-like cubicle on the roof of the house. The bombs exploded after 45 seconds, igniting the fuel of a gasoline-powered generator and setting the house on fire, which was left to burn. Officials later stated that this was to let the fire burn through the roof and destroy the "bunker", so police could then drop tear gas into the house and flush out the occupants.
30 minutes later, firefighters moved in to control the fire but there was gunfire and the firefighters and police were ordered back as the fire spread to neighboring houses down the street.
The only two MOVE survivors, Birdie Africa, who was 13 at the time, and Ramona Africa, both escaped the house. Police initially said that two men had also run out of the house at the same time and fired at them and that police had returned fire. Ramona Africa said that police fired at those trying to escape. Police said that MOVE members moved in and out of the house shooting at the police. The fire department later declared the fire under control at 11:47 p.m.
Holy shit, I’d never heard about this.
That's hardly the only one that US public schooling completely avoids teaching about... Tulsa, OK, OK to TN before that, and Wyoming too... the despicably shameful list goes on
but only the third (?) time that US citizens were subject to aerial bombardment … so, um … there’s that?
I suggest looking up what the Pinkertons were about as well. The US had a nasty history when it comes to the poor and people of color who get "uppity".
They still exist to this day, and do the same business. There more recent thing was being hired by Wizards of the Coast to intimidate someone who received MTG cards before official release date.
This was a big stink on the R site; there is no reason to maintain that company name except to capitalize on its horrifying reputation.
I know very well what the Pinkertons did back then — and are still doing as part of various union-buster merc groups hired by Amazon, Starbucks, etc. (the WotC thing is a blip that happened to ruffle geek feathers, so it bubbled up over there), but the simple fact that the general public doesn't (want to?) connect the dots between alt-right, cop gangs, and mercs like the Pinkertons is only one reason that this nation will continue to be slavery based, no matter the cosmetic flourish every 4+ years. 🤌🏽
And racist think this kind of life destroying event generation after generations doesn't have a negative impact on a group of people. The fact that Black Americans have anything should be applauded. This is just one event, look up Oklahoma massacre, or our wide spread lynchings history. There are still to this day southern families that have body parts of black lynching victims because that's just what their ancestors did back in the day. Hunt down black people that didn't stay in line and mount a piece of their body over the mantel as a family heirloom.
TBF I think a cult compound in the middle of the city full of white people armed to the teeth who want to take down the government and keep missing their paroles wouldn't end well, either. This event was not in itself racism destroying generations, rather the result of.
Okay but did you know that they were brown people? Checkmate liberals
I remember this craziness. Was insane and of course, it was all considered ok.
I remember this craziness.
I remember that craziness because as a young adult, I was working nearby and saw the smoke clouds.
...and of course, it was all considered ok.
I'm unaware of anyone at all those days who considered it 'all okay.' On the contrary, it put a kind of national spotlight on Philly police' brutality going back to the Rizzo days, and doubtless contributed to Rizzo never being mayor again. And I think even amongst the folks who believed the bombing was justified, a large segment had to admit that it obviously went very, very wrong.
All that said-- yeah, as a nation I'm not sure we learned a damn thing out of all that. The police certainly didn't appear to.
In the SE USA where I was about to graduate from high school, in the local news it was presented as "inner city terrorists handled with appropriated force"
I'm not surprised there was a deal of confusion about it. It was a complicated affair that doesn't have much analogue in contemporary history AFAIK.
Militarization of the police has been a wild fucking ride over the last 40 years.
Acorn drops and some pimple-faced teenager with a badge goes on a shooting rampage. Then we're told he needs better training, so we spend another couple million dollars bringing in IDF officers to train local cops on effective use of Skunk spray
Technically, they bombed a home. But it was a row home and they were too stupid to think about what happens when you set fire to a home connected to a bunch of others
and then they refused to let firefighters in
The ones that were being shot at?
Ok that's messed
You know, if you guys are just gonna label everyone who wants freedom terrorists, you've got a fucking problem there in the land of the ree
Imagine being firebombed because you're a shit neighbor (this is what I understood after a glance on the wiki page about MOVE, the two times the police went after them, it began as complaints from neighbors)
There was an armed standoff with police,[8] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them in return, and a 90-minute gunfight ensued, in which one officer was bruised in the back by gunfire.[38] Police used more than ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed
Fucking hell, 10k rounds? How?