this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2024
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Fuck Cars

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206
How Grille Design is Killing people (youtu.be)
submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I don't totally belong in this community as I rather like cars & motorcycles (but not how dependent our society is on them), but I really enjoyed the well researched video Fortnine put together on how the height of the front bumper/grille is the greatest predictor of pedestrian collision fatality and I felt it'd be a good fit for the community :)

Even as more of a car enthusiast, it's very frustrating how regulations intended to improve emissions have inadvertently resulted in basically every car on the road being a towering murder-behemoth that isn't actually even practical for their "intended" purposes (Speaking about trucks and SUVs since in my mind at least they're supposed to be utility vehicles for getting stuff done. Truck beds are the same size, but far harder to reach/see into, and get stuff out off for really no benefit whatsoever, and also have crap visibility)

I'm sure the way he voices certain things will be frustrating to some folks in this community, and thats fair- I think there's still merit to the way he's trying to push for a single small change that'd make a really big impact on safety (assuming legislators are willing to bite the bullet and actually do something for once). I try to be an ally to the ideas of making society less car-dependent even coming from a different perspective, and I hope y'all can see the value of folks in the enthusiast world as allies to the cause even if we don't share perspectives on everything. (For context, Fortnine is a motorcycling YouTube channel, and is as such obviously run by folks who love and care about motorcycling)

Hopefully this knowledge being more commonplace and widely discussed can more quickly result in legislation that makes cars far safer for pedestrians and cyclists

Hope y'all have a good day :)

Edit: added some context regarding Fortnine that intended to include but initially forgot

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It could be so easy. Just write a letter:

"Dear car manufacturer,

this grill design is proven to be unsafe. We won't approve any new cars with such designs starting now. People won't be able to register new cars with this grill design starting on x.y.z.

Greetings

Your friendly government agency

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago

Nah, then a bunch of representatives would receive some "donations" and then they'd suddenly be a on a crusade to tear apart said agency.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

Unfortunately, one of two major political parties in the US fundamentally does not believe in government. If we didn't have them, we'd still have to deal with normal bribery and ignorance problems, but I think that can be worked with better than fanaticism.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Here's the paper he references that specifically studied the relationship between the height of the front end of the vehicle, and the likelihood of fatality, for those who are interested :)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212012224000017

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don’t totally belong in this community as I rather like cars & motorcycles (but not how dependent our society is on them)

Sure you do. I'm a car enthusiast too. There is no contradiction in thinking that cars should be more like horses: enjoyed as sport, but considered mostly inappropriate for use on city streets.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I appreciate this sentiment :). I've seen it expressed sometimes, but I also often see people taking pretty hard line stances that would exclude me from this community. It felt a bit more appropriate to acknowledge where I was coming from and look to build bridges rather than assume they're already there. Thank you for sharing your support ☺️

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Is it really a problem with the grille? Or is it more vehicle size and bumper height?

[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago

It is a combination of how tall the front is, and if it sweeps backwards a bit, or is practically perpendicular to the ground.

What matters is how likely a pedestrian is to be pulled under the vehicle, instead of pushed up onto the hood. You can have a fairly tall grill, if it is angled backwards somewhat. And it won't be a near instant death bulldozer for pedestrians.
Tall and flat is the most dangerous combination, and that is exactly the trend of most big and giant trucks & SUVs.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's the latter, the video is titled in a way to describe it simply, and I could have done a better job of describing it when making the post 🤷

Though the reason the bumper and front of the car is so high is generally to accommodate a larger grille for aesthetic reasons, so to some extent its kinda true to say the grille is causing the problem

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I always thought bumper height already was standard, at least when sold new. Obviously it’s more difficult to apply to lifted trucks

[–] [email protected] -5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Sure, it's "grille design", and not the vehicle being a 4000kg death machine with the bonnet higher than a 12 year old child's head

Just buy normal sized vehicles

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Did you even watch the video?

[–] [email protected] -5 points 8 months ago

Of course not, who do you take me for?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

As pointed out in the video, studies show that the for pedestrian deaths, the greatest predictor by far is the height of the grille. This is because of how the body collides with the front of the vehicle on impact. Lower grilles mean the pedestrian is launched upwards and falls onto the hood. Higher means you get hit by a wall with nowhere to go but down.

Because all vehicles are much more massive than people, the difference in mass between a heavy vehicle and a light vehicle is a near negligible factor in these cases.