And that's the problem. It's not enough to be profitable, you have to be more profitable year over year, forever.
this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024
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Infinite growth is unsustainable. How long before it collapses?
The next recession when they'll get bailed out by the government (yet again) and start the same process over again.
Privatize the gains, socialize the losses
Oh wait but it's wrong when the people get government support, that's socialism!
Wish we'd start socializing the gains and privitizing the fuckin losses.
Or the environment collapses, whichever happens first.
When we realize that part of the solution is to kill the culprits.
There is plenty of historical precedent...
- Ticket prices constantly fluctuating, pricing structures deliberately designed to game customers and milk them for as much money as possible
- Random fees for bags, random fees for where you sit, random fees for how you board, random fees for your fees, more fees depending on when you pay your fees, and always rising all the time
- A minefield of hidden gotchas and fine print, clauses on top of clauses that declare the airline isn't at fault for anything even when they're totally at fault for all of it
- Stand in line to get hassled and have your 'nads fondled by belligerent TSA whackers
- Sit around the terminal for hours getting coughed and sneezed on by roughly 45% of the world's population
- $8 for a bottle of water past the security checkpoint
- Oh, and the door might just fly off of your plane because Boeing
Yeah, and people wonder why if I'm traveling domestically I'll just drive or ride. Fuck all of the above, plus when I get wherever I'm going I'll already have my motorcycle with me.
I basically came here to vent similar frustrations. The last few times I have flown it’s been even more hellish than usual. IMO Airlines overbooking flights is out of control and should have never been allowed in the first place.
Last time I flew American Airlines, 5 of my 6 flights were delayed, with one being delayed overnight into the next day and no offer to pay for a hotel room or anything. Another of those delays was because a part fell off the plane. Another was due to the landing gear not retracting properly after we took off, so we had to turn around.
Now they are pushing facial scanning harder and I’m sure before long it won’t be optional. Flying is a violation of my body, my privacy, and my personal space and comfort, and having to pay ever more for the “privilege“ to do so.
I don’t ever want to fly again under this system.
"Capitalism breeds innovation"
How does it make any sense that you have to pay extra to put something in a vehicle you're traveling in? Is it for security? Is the gremlin on the airplane wing going to steal someone's Louis Vuitton suitcase?
More weight = more fuel.
True about any vehicle. But only planes charge extra for it.
Your car charges extra for it via gas consumed
This is a math question I have always wanted to answer. Say I put a penny in my car... how long would I have to drive before that penny has cost me a penny of extra fuel?
This is a math question I have always wanted to answer. Say I put a penny in my car… how long would I have to drive before that penny has cost me a penny of extra fuel?
This question is actually TWO questions:
- How much does the weight of penny affect the fuel efficiency of a car?
- How far can a car drive on one penny worth of fuel?
There are many many factors that will change these answers (how much you pay for fuel, what kind of car you're driving, where you're driving it, even what weather are you driving in, etc).
The #2 question is easier to answer. Lets take a specific car to work the numbers: a 2022 Toyota Corolla with the 1.8L engine with USA emissions. We'll assume we're driving on level ground in conditions matching the EPA fuel testing guidelines on the highway. This gives us 38MPG source
Lets also assume you're in New York where the average price of 87 octane gas is currently $3.34/gallon source
With our $3.34/gallon gas at 38MPG, that means $0.0879 (about 9 cents) a mile or $0.00001664 per foot.
So the answer to question #2 is: one penny of fuel for this car in this place would travel about 600ft
As to the answer for question #1:
"a report issued by the Aluminum Association, Inc. based on research by Ricardo. The chart below shows that for a small car with a 1.6-liter engine, reducing weight by five percent led to an increase in fuel economy of 2.1 percent on the EPA combined rating." source
So lets assume we get the same for our 1.8L Corolla. A 2.1% fuel economy would take our 38MPG to 38.798MPG.
With our $3.34/gallon gas at 38.798MPG, that means $0.086 (still about 9 cents a mile) or $0.00001664 per foot. One penny of fuel for this car in this place would travel about 614ft. So dropping 100lbs would make the car go 14ft more per gallon.
Modern pennies are copper plated zinc. There are approximately 181 copper plated zinc pennies in a pound. source So 18100 pennies is 100lbs. So 18100 pennies in the car would cost us 14ft of travel on our gallon of gasoline.
So the answer to your original question of "how long would I have to drive before that penny has cost me a penny of extra fuel?"
About 4,285 miles
Realistically the numbers are so small this is likely somewhat inaccurate because of rounding in various steps of calculation.
That's only 24 miles? That's crazy!
Double check the post. I had a math error that I edited my post for correction. The final answer I came up with was: About 4,285 miles
Good question, I copied this response from Quora, but looks legit to me, feel free to do more digging as required. The equation doesn't copy well here, but you can Google it and find the answer with the equation intact.
Let's assume that you have a 1500 kg car including baggage, driver, etc. You want then to add another 65 kg passenger. Since fuel consumption is highly dependent on driving style and on the routes you take, let's also assume that your average fuel consumption is 6.0 L/100 km, considering no extra passengers. The last assumption I'd make is that fuel consumption increases linearly with car weight, if the weight deviations are low.
We can use a simple proportion to estimate the fuel consumption with the added weight, considering all of the above assumptions:
(Removed equation would be here)
That is a 4.33% increase on fuel consumption.
These assumptions may not be very accurate, but personally I believe that this estimation is a worst-case scenario.
I'm not an expert but I think the extra amount of fuel a plane uses to do it is going to be more expensive than a bus carrying an extra bag.
I'm also not an expert, but I think a plane ticket costs significantly more than a bus ticket.
Depends on where you need to go honestly. Per km traveled planes are actually unreasonably cheap.
Cheaper than the same distance by bus? I find that difficult to believe unless you're talking about budget airlines that don't allow you to check luggage at all anyway.
Boston to Portland. I chose cities at random.
Greyhound:
- 1 adult. Includes one carry on and one stored. Takes 5 days. Service fee of $4. Total comes to $375 with tax.
Delta:
- 1 adult. Includes one carry on. Stored is extra at $30. Takes 9 hours. Total comes to $300 with tax.
Maybe the convenience of speed as well? A plane will get you coast to coast in just hours vs a bus or train.
Are you suggesting people should have to pay a surcharge on putting their property on a plane because the plane is faster than a bus? Isn't that why the tickets are generally more expensive anyway? You seem to be saying that any amount of surcharges are acceptable due to speed and fuel costs.
The string above this pointed out that the greyhound bus is more expensive than the delta flight from the same start to finish.
I'm not saying the price increase isn't bullshit or acceptable, but you are already paying more for the greyhound for slower travel.
Flying between major cities in the EU can be cheaper than taking multiple busses / trains to get there if you buy the tickets way ahead
If there is a direct touring bus that's still cheaper.
Also if I remember right, any unused space can be used by FedEx/UPS to move packages and the airliners get more money from that than passenger's bags
And this is why I'll continue to fly Southwest. Which gives me cheap tickets, and doesnt try to fuck me in the ass on luggage.
Yet
You just get fucked on literally every other aspect
man, if spending 100 bucks to fly somewhere with 2 full checked bags, and a carry on, is being fucked...
Then lube my ass up, cause I'll take that anyday compared to the 200-600 the flight costs on anyone else.
Will they try to fuck you in the ass when you’re /off/ luggage? Is it like “the floor is lava” game? :)
I fucken hate flying.
It's a don't care fee for those that make the airline money. Most of the economy travelers are once a year leisure travelers with zero brand loyalty and only buy based off of the cheapest fare, sometimes coupled with convenience.
The $5 fee doesn't impact their purchase because it's not in the base price. And if they're truly cost conscious, they'll do carryon, board in Group 4, and have it gate checked for free.
The 2023 numbers from Q4 agree with the consensus. For United it's about the same as the other's in the Big 3 (United, Delta, American). 12% of the passengers are business class (domestic "first" since US carriers don't have first class) and they make between 75% and 80% of the revenue. For a 100 seat plane, which is like an Embraer that means the 12 butts up front make 80% of the money for United while the 88 butts in steerage class make 20% of the money. That's 6.6% of flight revenue per business class passenger and 0.23% per economy pax.
The business class passenger is therefore 28x more valuable to United just on revenue. The business class passenger also will usually have more brand loyalty, they will choose a flight even if more expensive or worse routing, to fly with the airline because. Maybe just because. Maybe perks. But it doesn't matter to United.
If you fly United business class you get 2 free bags. It doesn't affect those United cares about.
Within the economy sections 20% of revenue over 10% of those are basic economy super duper cheap fares that are zero bags, also doesn't affect them.
And additionally, the Big 3 airlines aren't airline companies anymore. They are credit card banks that operate flying buses. That's the most profitable and the most valuable asset (literally) that they have. It's what the airlines even borrowed against during COVID as guaranteed collateral. If you sign up for the United credit card, you become valuable to United, and guess what?! No checked bag fees!
So all in all, this is a nothing burger that affects very few people, and United doesn't give a crap if it does. If you want to be treated better, cough up the dough.
I haven't flown in years. It's simply too expensive.
If you factor in the amount of time wasted waiting around to get through security, waiting to get on the plane, waiting on the plane to take off, waiting at the gate after landing, waiting on your luggage, waiting on transportation from the airport, flying isn't much faster than driving.
Gas may be expensive, but the buttfucking you get at the airport just isn't worth it anymore.
Really depends on how far you travel. I hate the air travel process in general, but there really aren't great alternatives to go across the country (U.S.). Need high speed rail, but the politics for that to be approved is soooo slow and complicated.
Yep.
Long distance rail right now in America is slow, full of gaps that require LENGTHY bus rides between connections, and costs about 4-8 times more than just taking a plane.
I live south of Toledo and my parents live in Houston. If my brother (who lives in town) goes with me it's cheaper for us to drive, plus we can take more stuff with us, but it takes us 2 days to drive there and 2 days to drive back vs about 8 hours total travel time (1.5 hours to the airport, 1.5 hours window for security and getting to the gate, 1.5-4 hours depending on if it's a direct flight or has a layover, 1 hour from airport to my parents place). Obviously it depends on the distance, and i much prefer road trips, but it's not always so clear cut.
My desire to fly continues to shrink...
For most Americans it was too high in the first place. We are not at as many miles as 2019 still but we are close. Billionaires like Elon Musk also need to stop taking 12 mile flights to avoid twenty minutes of traffic.
We will use that $5 to make sure the doors are closed.
Ultimately air travel is not for those on a budget.
If you can afford priority boarding, lounge, don't even worry about baggage fees, can afford even 1step upgraded seats, tsa pre and global entry, air travel is a breeze. Anything less is ugly.