485
submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Abigail Disney, Brian Cox and Valerie Rockefeller among signatories of open letter condemning inequality

More than 250 billionaires and millionaires are demanding that the political elite meeting for the World Economic Forum in Davos introduce wealth taxes to help pay for better public services around the world.

“Our request is simple: we ask you to tax us, the very richest in society,” the wealthy people said in an open letter to world leaders. “This will not fundamentally alter our standard of living, nor deprive our children, nor harm our nations’ economic growth. But it will turn extreme and unproductive private wealth into an investment for our common democratic future.”

The rich signatories from 17 countries include Disney heir Abigail Disney; Brian Cox who played fictional billionaire Logan Roy in Succession; actor and screenwriter Simon Pegg; and Valerie Rockefeller , an heir to the US dynasty.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] [email protected] 129 points 8 months ago

Republicans idolize the 1950s. They conveniently forget about the part where the top tax bracket was taxed at 90%.

And now they claim if we have a wealth tax, they'll just move. Massachusetts passed a wealth tax recently. Astoundingly, all the wealthy people didn't move. Turns out they're fine paying a premium to have a house in Martha's Vineyard and a condo in Boston because, and I know this is a shock to Republicans, they can afford to pay a premium to live somewhere desirable.

[-] [email protected] 34 points 8 months ago

Massachusetts passed a wealth tax recently.

Not to be pedantic, but it's an income tax.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

It's generally being called a wealth tax.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

There's a major difference between the two

[-] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

Maybe, but it's being called a 'wealth tax' or a 'millionaire's tax.' You don't have to take my word for it- https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=massachusetts+wealth+tax#ip=1

[-] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Just because some people call it a wealth tax does not mean we should perpetuate the micsonception

It's an income tax on high earners, and objectively not a wealth tax no matter how many people call it that

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I think they idolize 1950s mainly for sociopolitical reasons. The 1800s are more like the government-minimalist ideal.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah and if you look at tax rates since then you can see lowering them generally makes things worse and the few times they were raised even a little was followed by better times. Thing is we are so far in a tax deficit that it will take having high rates for awhile to get back to a decent level. EDITED per comment as the first one was supposed to be lowering.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Let me guess... keep lowering taxes on the rich and the wealth will trickle down.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Raising them makes things worse but raising them a little was followed by better times...

I think you might need to reread your messages before hitting send...

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] [email protected] 84 points 8 months ago

It's not enough to just say it.

Because other billionaires give millions to ensure it doesn't happen. And I think it would be naive to not expect some overlap in these groups.

If they mean it, they should literally put their money where their mouths are and donate to progressive Dems during primaries and the general.

[-] [email protected] 36 points 8 months ago

Exactly, this is just a game of "our billionaires are better than your billionaires" and considering their billionaires are paying them off, that's not surprising.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

I slightly disagree on one point: They should be lobbying the people directly, not the politicians.

[-] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The issue isn't voters...

The issue is anyone that wants to tax the rich can't make it out of a primary, because the rich (individuals and corporations) give an insane amount of money to candidates who won't tax them.

Bernie almost managed to do it off voter donations, but then the DNC had a lawyer tell a judge that they can influence a primary as much as they want, even to the point of ignoring results.

Right now our political system cares more about money than votes.

But like Bernie has been saying for decades:

To fix the system, we need to win thru the system. Then change it.

We can only do that with huge donations, because that's the only thing the people running both major parties care about right now.

Our entire political structure is based on getting as much donations as possible.

So if these people want to help, their money matters a lot more than their words or even votes.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

citizens united will prove out to be the nail in our coffin of democracy.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Our entire political structure is based on getting as much donations as possible.

Yes. True. Why?

When you answer that question, you'll understand my argument.

Those donations are spent trying to influence public opinion toward a particular candidate. The candidates need that to happen, so they can get elected.

We don't need particular candidates to be elected. We need public sentiment to broadly support taxing the rich.

We don't need Bernie preaching to the choir of progressive Democrats. We need American voters asking candidates of every party, of every ideology, and at every level, for higher taxes on the rich.

We need a series of ads where a billionaire just looks in the camera and says "Hi, I'm Warren Buffett. I spent more on this ad than I paid in taxes last year."

That's it. Simple, concise, inarguable. The rich are so rich they can take out ads for the sole purpose of explaining how rich they are and how little they pay in taxes.

We need every candidate either supporting extensive taxes on the rich, or being forced to explain why all these billionaires are on TV bragging about how little they pay in taxes.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

It costs more to convince people to vote for a bad candidate than a good one.

And after the first term it'll cost even less.

That's pretty basic advertisement stuff, the worse your product, the more you need to spend on advertising and marketing.

So why don't we try supplying a good product people want without spending 100s of millions convincing them to want it?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[-] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago

I want to believe them… but it takes more than just words. I feel like if they REALLY wanted this, it would have been done by now.

[-] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago

It looks like they really want this; however, even they understand that people will circumvent the laws and move money to more "favorable" countries, if the world doesn't take a coordinated approach.

The politicians have been setting up the game to appease the rich for generations. It won't be undone that easily.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

Need something like this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_minimum_corporate_tax_rate

But for individual wealth/billionaires

[-] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

And when action happens, I will be behind 100%. Need to read the article, is there even a plan? Other than “hey politicians, do this”?

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago

Also billionaires: Let me put my money in offshore accounts and buy a ton of museums and art and shit and then let me get a tax write off against it.

Nothing short of an avalanche of left leaning policies will actually get billionaires to pay more in tax. And that won't happen, because billionaires have already heavily invested in conservative and 'progressive' politicians who won't dare bite hand that feeds them.

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling I'm not.

[-] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

You know that the world is fucked when even some of the rich demand more taxes on the rich.

I guess they should bribe the system to get more taxes like everyone else does.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago
  1. They don't mean it.

  2. Their owned politicians won't do it.

[-] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago

Abigail Disney absolutely does mean it. She gives away a ton of money and is highly critical of Disney. Sure, she could give it all away or she could use her money to influence politicians to actually help while also donating a ton.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

Why do you think they are saying it then? Why not say nothing like the rest of them?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

There's no way of knowing how many actually mean it. I'll sure some of them do and others don't.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Some of them realize, that the masses are getting angry. We're getting out our pitchforks, torches, and guillotines. Angry people will start to fuck up shit. January 6, BLM protests, etc, are all prime example of what people are willing to do when they get angry.

If everyone's option is either continued to get screwed or fuck shit up for a possibility of a better future. People will generally pick the fuck shit up option.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

Some of them do mean it. They know that places with less wealth inequality are better places to live, even for the rich.

The problem is that even if they were willing to donate their entire wealth to the government, they're only one of hundreds of billionaires, so their personal sacrifice isn't going to change much. They'd just be one of the non-rich in a place with huge wealth inequality. So, before they do that, they want assurances that everyone else will do it too.

So, it comes down to whether politicians will do it. Many politicians won't either because they're rich themselves, or they're "owned" by ultra-rich people who don't want their hoards touched. But, even if the politicians were interested, it's a tough issue because of offshore tax shelters and places like Monaco. When France tried to tax wealth, many of the wealthy just moved to Monaco, or to another place where their wealth was secure. And, as much as it sucks having the ultra-wealthy in the country not paying enough in taxes, it's worse for them to take all their wealth and leave the country entirely.

The only thing that would really work is for the rich countries of the world to band together and agree on a minimum wealth tax, and then to deny entry to anybody who fled to a tax-shelter country. But, that would never happen both because it's too ambitious and too many politicians are owned by the rich. And, because it's a prisoner's dilemma situation where there's a huge incentive to be the country that defects from the deal and welcomes all the billionaires.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Even if it were to happen, taxation is a game. And like ANY game, if you throw enough effort at it, it can be beaten. The 1% can afford to throw that effort at any tax rules you can devise. They are quite confident they can beat the game no matter what you do.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Warren Buffet was one of the first I heard a few years ago say he's not being taxed enough and they should be taxing companies like his more. I think this was related to him signing up to the Gates fund which will see most of his wealth donated to charity.

There were others that were not happy with Buffet's comments about taxing billionaires more. It's nowhere near as high as Britain which spurred on the Taxman song by the Beatles. At that point 90 percent was going to the tax man then. Britain still had an enormous debt from WW2 and left over from WW1 they were still trying to pay off.

For the US I did hear a argument being made for a return to corporate taxes levels pre Reagan as that was a time when corporations and industry in America contributed a lot to society. The tax rate was like 58 percent if I recall correctly from the interview and the companies paid their staff well and they invested into a great deal of research like Bell Labs as preferred ways to earn write offs to not give the taxes to the government.

[-] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago

Back in the day, corporate taxes were like 25% of federal revenues. After Trump's tax cuts, it's down to 10%. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1edSi

High corporate tax rates encourages companies not to have profits - pay their revenues out as wages, research new technologies, build infrastructure. Do useful shit with their gains rather than just sit on big bags of cash.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

just sit on big bags of cash.

Looking at you Apple

[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

That would be $99 for iSee!

[-] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

90% wasn't going to the Taxman, only 90% of the top tax bracket. The effective rate was likely significantly lower.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Buffet avoided and skirted taxes (legally). Him saying he “should be taxed more” is just moral fronting. He could easily pay more taxes if he wants. He just has to stop using all the extremely expensive tax lawyers that move his money around dozens of companies in tax havens….

[-] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

This is basically trying to save face. They may as well say “no really, all you plebs shouldn’t hate us! It’s not our fault we’re rich and don’t pay taces!” Because they can feel now how bad things are getting and how much worse they’re likely going to get as the decade unfurls

[-] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Fact: you can pay more taxes voluntarily without being told you have to.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

They aren't saying it because they really want to pay more taxes

They're saying a system should be put in place where the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes

It's a subtle but important distinction

[-] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

You are asking them for their fish. This request seems to be an attempt to teach your politicians how to fish.

I'd much rather see them use it to lobby in favour of taxes on the wealthy, than seeing a handful of them give part of their money away.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
[-] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

Propaganda.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

"Okay my dudes, perhaps the joke of unending accumulation and exponential exploitation of natural resources until we don't know where to park the unused private jets has gone a little too far, maybe?"

[-] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago
[-] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Can they not just surrender the money of their own volition? You could even cut out the middleman.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

I don't think there's a mechanism in place for transfer of money to the government like that beyond, say, buying bonds or something, which the government is required to repay. They aren't really set up to take large donations of that nature, taxes are already intended to handle that. And an individual isn't going to be able to legally build a highway, or a school district of their own accord without governmental assistance.

And I think it's good that this is the case. It prevents America from devolving into a hundred nations led by individual warlords, we would very easily slip into something resembling Japan's Sengoku period.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

I would presume these folks are already pretty charitable, it must be how they were known as potential signatories to join.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

This is a common statement type of thing. Especially for conservatives when responding to someone wealthy saying taxes should be raised. You see they are in relative competition with each other. If they give up their money they will lower their relative status but if money is removed equally across their level then the playing field is still level.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2024
485 points (98.2% liked)

News

22886 readers
3775 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS