everything else from other places
This evening I'll make a quick little Connextras video about this, I think. What exactly the issue is with the Tesla chargers is unclear, though I'm seeing reports that charge handles are plugging with ice - which seems reasonable. The worst aspect of Tesla's charger design is how poorly they retain the handle - it falls out easily and can end up face-down in snow. That needs improvement, and perhaps a heated connector makes sense in this climate.
Growing pains are real, but this is mostly FUD*
*I apologize for using that term but it's true.
More AC charging everywhere is what we need - relying on DC chargers for your daily needs is just not good for lots of reasons.
That said, they need to be designed better so that this isn't an issue.
@[email protected] a couple of weeks ago a big highway in southern Sweden was backed up for 30km. Some bevs and ice vehicles failed miserably but that was not because of the propulsion but lack of fuel.
If you have a short drive home you might not fuel up before doing that and let’s be honest, who plans on being stuck and snowed in for 24 hours.
Spoiler alert, some fud-spreading people say bevs are crap because of this
@[email protected] this perplexed me too and initially I thought these people stuck at chargers had their battery unexpectedly depleted while at work or something. But apparently owning an EV without a place to charge at home is a thing some people are doing?
@[email protected] Yes, a surprising number of folks are doing this. I frankly don't understand it but at the same time, it's a way to make demand happen for more charging in more places I guess.
I essentially don't use public charging at all unless I have a surprise need to make a longer trip. That has happened three times in two years for me - otherwise I'm only ever plugging in at home.
@[email protected] @[email protected]
Think about it from the standpoint of someone coming from exclusively ICE cars. Needing to refuel away from home is what they're used to, so not being able to charge at home is normal for them. They may find the wider range of places that offer chargers- many employers have dedicated EV charging spaces now, for instance- to be nice, even if they don't have the full convenience of charging at home.
@[email protected] I’m going EV in March and yeah, the “full tank every day” is like…a huge draw to making the switch. If I couldn’t charge at home I wouldn’t even consider it
@[email protected] I'm still firmly in the camp of "more basic L2 AC charging in more places" but it's also true that for folks like myself, I just... never need that.
It's mainly renters and folks who use street parking who need it, which presents quite the chicken-and-egg problem. So honestly, good on the folks making it work without at-home charging. I just hope they understood the experience they're signing up for and don't become loudly upset.
@[email protected] @[email protected] A very large segment of Tesla drivers are Rideshare, who probably don't have the means to install a Level 2 charger where they live.
I don't own an EV yet, but it seems likely I will in the near future. My ability to use it for trips depends on charging infrastructure.
@[email protected] I'm tired of the FUD. My mom seems to think that every EV is going to burst into flames...
@[email protected] agree, I manage to charge 37kWh in 8 hours on 240V 12A (at home)
during off peak which costs next to nothing
@[email protected] I think we need to both home charging and work place charging. The 8-9 hours we spend at the work place is also perfect time to AC charge our cars. It has other bottlenecks (not enough power provisioned by utilities, managing the queue of cars for small number of EVSE, etc.) but they are solvable problems.
@[email protected] Ice is a pain with everything. I couldn’t unlock a (gas powered) car door yesterday because the keyhole had frozen.
@[email protected] I bought a spray can of windshield deicer to solve the problem of icy EV power connectors in New England. It would be nice if the handles were heated.
@[email protected] I mean, it shouldn't be the technology, right? Tell me if I've slept through that part of physics class, but lower temperatures should be better for charging!
@[email protected] Well... for cables, sure. For the battery? Absolutely not. Cold temps wreck battery charging performance which is why most EVs have some means to warm up the cells. Nearly all have had this to keep the battery above some minimum threshold, but newer cars work to heat the battery pack to properly warm temps en-route to a fast charger (called battery preconditioning) which greatly reduces charging time.
@[email protected] oh, yup. I've clearly slept through chemistry class, then! Thanks for explaining :ablobcatheartsqueeze:
@[email protected] I can't wait for the first "Well, i thought I should pour hot water over it to thaw it" reports to come in... 😳
The reports better be either nothing happened, or the charger now works. Chargers need to work when it is raining. If pouring hot water on them causes any problems then all Tesla chargers should immediately be blocked off (not just shut off, physical access removed) as they cannot be trusted when it rains.
@[email protected] I've definitely ran across my fair share of Tesla charger plugs that will not properly hang back up. It's a very stupid design they have.
@[email protected] Yeah, it seems like the only retention mechanism is friction? Which... WTF.
Honestly there's a lot about their charger design to not like. The connector itself? Great!
The way the dispenser holds it? The location of where it holds it? The cable length? All bad.
@[email protected] Yeah I've had many a connector just plop right down onto the ground when putting it back. You have to get it juuuuuuuust right. It was definitely a learning curve when I first got the car.
@[email protected] I don't think the issue is with the chargers, it's with the batteries. Batteries discharge more quickly (well less efficiently) in the cold, and they recharge more slowly in the cold. The theory is you can precondition the battery, to warm it up to make charging more efficient, but that requires further discharge which may be difficult if you're already on a low battery.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/16/tesla_owners_in_deep_freeze
@[email protected] That's an interesting supposition you've got there, except in this instance near Chicago multiple chargers have indeed gone down. At least one charging site went entirely offline.
@[email protected] yeah it’s the infrastructure for the most part and people not really knowing about EVs in cold weather shortcomings.
@[email protected] Well maybe Teslas are only good for one thing then. https://youtube.com/shorts/dk4jPpI2kjE
@[email protected] I have a fuzzy memory that Tesla chargers used to lock on when they were plugged into a car, but that turned out to be a bad idea because people would break the plug trying to disconnect it before the car was ready.
@[email protected] No they absolutely still lock to the car - it would be incredibly dangerous if they didn't as you could disconnect a several-hundred-amps DC connection.
The dispensers, though, barely retain them when they are put back in the holder. It's essentially a friction fit.
@[email protected]
EVs have 2 batteries, a “12 volt” aux battery to run the lights and cabin stuff and the traction battery.
My first thought was that there was a rash of cold weather forced 12 volt battery failures. They are needed to line up the HV system for charging. I hope there is follow up on this story.
Early teslas have lead acid aux batteries. Newer Teslas have lithium aux batteries.
@[email protected] there's been a decent amount of federal money flowing into local projects to install more fast chargers, but with what they cost I wonder if we'd be better off showering places with tons of cheap Level 2 chargers.
It's a huge problem if there's contention for a handful of fast-charging spots, but if you know wherever you go there will be a spot that can charge your car over the course of several hours, that would be a huge help day-to-day for those without a home charger.
It's not a non-issue. EVs still tear up roads, drive into telephone poles, signs, fences and houses, and kill people.
Their promise was, "Well, at least they don't burn oil." But it turns out they can't even do that well.
Please stop defending them and encourage people to support scalable mass transit and bicycles instead.
You may think that, "That doesn't sell views." but some other channels don't agree...
@[email protected] I'm sorry but I don't have patience for this attitude whatsoever.
Our built world is incredibly car-centric. This is bad! I'm on record as saying that. But we're not gonna be tearing it down any time soon, and progress on more mass transit and even bike infrastructure is frustratingly slow. Much too slow to have the impacts we need now.
I frankly find it insulting that you presume I don't also want more mass transit and bike infrastructure.
@[email protected] Calm down. All I asked was that you don't defend them.
@[email protected] ... oh right, all you asked was for me to not make content illustrating that so much of the bad press out there isn't real.
What to you actually want, a reduction in climate emissions as fast as possible? Or should we all just keep buying gas-powered cars while our politicians twiddle their thumbs and NIMBYs do their best to block even the most meager of proposals?
@[email protected] First of all, you have no evidence that the story wasn't true. Second, the difference between everyone using gas or electric is very small, especially when you consider tire and brake residue.
But you jump to the defense of the EV anyways, even making a buck off the video.
All I'm saying is that EVs don't deserve it. Spend your time and energy on something else please.
@[email protected] Did I suggest that story's not true? Is this a Mastodon threading thing?
Or are you really just... extremely anti-EV?
I can't tell, but either way - your suggestion has been noted but, I should warn you, will be ignored.
@[email protected] I suspect that you're mixing up respondents. You /did/ say, "...that so much of the bad press out there isn't real." I never mentioned the press.
@[email protected] What, specifically, are you telling me I should be defending against, then?
I'm so fucking confused.
@[email protected] I usually solve this problem by re-reading the thread and trying to figure out where I got off track; not asking someone to repeat themselves endlessly.
@[email protected] So.
You came out of nowhere, told me I shouldn't defend EVs because of how bad cars in general are and that "instead" I should be advocating for better mass transit and bike infrastructure.
"Instead" implies one cannot do both - which I flatly reject.
@[email protected] If one has the time and energy to do both, sure, but I've watched your channel for a while and haven't seen a single alternative transportation post...
@[email protected] Then you haven't been paying enough attention.
I've mentioned the need for more than just cars several times - have I made a video specifically about mass transit? No. But I don't really intend do because that's not my niche.
At this point, I'm ending this conversation.
@[email protected] You better believe this rubs me the wrong way. And I think you know you are being provocative. Deliberately.
If you don't, god help you.
@[email protected] This is quintessential black-and-white thinking at its very worst.
I need a car and will need one for the foreseeable future. Many people are in the same boat.
Getting mad at folks who advocate for harm reduction given the realities of the day as some sort of purity test is not how you win over folks. You'll probably make some extremists happy, maybe even radicalize a few folks to your position.
But this sort of purity-testing nonsense never leads to great places.
@[email protected] What sort of temperatures are we talking about there? I've been watching some of Bjørn Nyland's videos and he doesn't seem to have had many issues charging EVs at as low as -25C.