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this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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This evening I'll make a quick little Connextras video about this, I think. What exactly the issue is with the Tesla chargers is unclear, though I'm seeing reports that charge handles are plugging with ice - which seems reasonable. The worst aspect of Tesla's charger design is how poorly they retain the handle - it falls out easily and can end up face-down in snow. That needs improvement, and perhaps a heated connector makes sense in this climate.
Growing pains are real, but this is mostly FUD*
@[email protected] I've definitely ran across my fair share of Tesla charger plugs that will not properly hang back up. It's a very stupid design they have.
@[email protected] Yeah, it seems like the only retention mechanism is friction? Which... WTF.
Honestly there's a lot about their charger design to not like. The connector itself? Great!
The way the dispenser holds it? The location of where it holds it? The cable length? All bad.
@[email protected] Yeah I've had many a connector just plop right down onto the ground when putting it back. You have to get it juuuuuuuust right. It was definitely a learning curve when I first got the car.
@[email protected] I mean, it shouldn't be the technology, right? Tell me if I've slept through that part of physics class, but lower temperatures should be better for charging!
@[email protected] Well... for cables, sure. For the battery? Absolutely not. Cold temps wreck battery charging performance which is why most EVs have some means to warm up the cells. Nearly all have had this to keep the battery above some minimum threshold, but newer cars work to heat the battery pack to properly warm temps en-route to a fast charger (called battery preconditioning) which greatly reduces charging time.
@[email protected] oh, yup. I've clearly slept through chemistry class, then! Thanks for explaining :ablobcatheartsqueeze:
@[email protected] I can't wait for the first "Well, i thought I should pour hot water over it to thaw it" reports to come in... 😳
The reports better be either nothing happened, or the charger now works. Chargers need to work when it is raining. If pouring hot water on them causes any problems then all Tesla chargers should immediately be blocked off (not just shut off, physical access removed) as they cannot be trusted when it rains.
@[email protected] good news: the v4 pedestals, and the magic dock equipped v3 ones, add positive retention on the pillars.
Now we just need to work on the users who don’t put them back.
@[email protected]
Btw, maybe I've asked it before, but why don't you use the 'channels' feature on yt channels. I've seen channels that have a 'channels' tab right here where they list their second channel.
(I know that the second channel is linked in the 'links' section already. But yeah)
@[email protected] I wonder if the people who got stranded in the cold think it's all FUD
@[email protected] Ice is a pain with everything. I couldn’t unlock a (gas powered) car door yesterday because the keyhole had frozen.
@[email protected] I don't think the issue is with the chargers, it's with the batteries. Batteries discharge more quickly (well less efficiently) in the cold, and they recharge more slowly in the cold. The theory is you can precondition the battery, to warm it up to make charging more efficient, but that requires further discharge which may be difficult if you're already on a low battery.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/01/16/tesla_owners_in_deep_freeze
@[email protected] That's an interesting supposition you've got there, except in this instance near Chicago multiple chargers have indeed gone down. At least one charging site went entirely offline.
*I apologize for using that term but it's true.
More AC charging everywhere is what we need - relying on DC chargers for your daily needs is just not good for lots of reasons.
That said, they need to be designed better so that this isn't an issue.
@[email protected] businesses need much more incentives to offer at work charging. As someone who lives in a condo, and has little to no chance of ever getting the building to put in a charger, I can see how this is going to be a huge issue. While we absolutely need a nationwide charging network of charging stations, it's only one piece of the puzzle.
@[email protected] The problem with AC chargers is that you need to be on them for a lot longer. Here in Europe, the general trend is additional time based fees if you are connected for more than say 4 hours, to encourage people to move. The 4h limit is not nearly enough time to fill up most batteries, and basically prevents overnight charging.
@[email protected] The NACS plug does both, but high-power charging isn’t necessary for most people, especially if we can make public chargers so ubiquitous you can charge a bit as you run errands (or charge at work). Fast charging isn’t great for batteries anyway.
As I write this, I think governments should do much more to encourage workplace charging. That has to be easier and cheaper to set up than individual home charging, particularly for renters.
@[email protected] @[email protected] The problem there is that the NACS plug doesn't do the 3rd option that Combo/CCS 2 does: 3-phase AC for that sort of medium power charging while shopping for a bit.
@[email protected] @[email protected] Sure, but there are 50kW DC chargers out there. Heck, there's really no reason you couldn't have a 25 kW DC charger.
I'd argue it doesn't make sense to equip every EV with a more expensive onboard charger which can handle large AC inputs - most people truly don't need that ever.
The need for medium-speed charging is, frankly, rare in the grand scheme. And it's much more sensible to fill that need with DC chargers in places where they're appropriate.
@[email protected] My local Costco has just installed 3 new 24 kW CCS chargers to replace janky level 2 Semaconnect crappy ones. Truly wonderful! $2.50 Canadian per hour, my IONIQ 5 AWD gains 30% charge in the time it takes to shop through the store. Way better than level 2!
@[email protected] I'm tired of the FUD. My mom seems to think that every EV is going to burst into flames...
@[email protected] this perplexed me too and initially I thought these people stuck at chargers had their battery unexpectedly depleted while at work or something. But apparently owning an EV without a place to charge at home is a thing some people are doing?
@[email protected] Yes, a surprising number of folks are doing this. I frankly don't understand it but at the same time, it's a way to make demand happen for more charging in more places I guess.
I essentially don't use public charging at all unless I have a surprise need to make a longer trip. That has happened three times in two years for me - otherwise I'm only ever plugging in at home.
@[email protected] @[email protected]
Think about it from the standpoint of someone coming from exclusively ICE cars. Needing to refuel away from home is what they're used to, so not being able to charge at home is normal for them. They may find the wider range of places that offer chargers- many employers have dedicated EV charging spaces now, for instance- to be nice, even if they don't have the full convenience of charging at home.
@[email protected] @[email protected] A very large segment of Tesla drivers are Rideshare, who probably don't have the means to install a Level 2 charger where they live.
@[email protected] I'm still firmly in the camp of "more basic L2 AC charging in more places" but it's also true that for folks like myself, I just... never need that.
It's mainly renters and folks who use street parking who need it, which presents quite the chicken-and-egg problem. So honestly, good on the folks making it work without at-home charging. I just hope they understood the experience they're signing up for and don't become loudly upset.
@[email protected] I’m going EV in March and yeah, the “full tank every day” is like…a huge draw to making the switch. If I couldn’t charge at home I wouldn’t even consider it
I don't own an EV yet, but it seems likely I will in the near future. My ability to use it for trips depends on charging infrastructure.
@[email protected] a couple of weeks ago a big highway in southern Sweden was backed up for 30km. Some bevs and ice vehicles failed miserably but that was not because of the propulsion but lack of fuel.
If you have a short drive home you might not fuel up before doing that and let’s be honest, who plans on being stuck and snowed in for 24 hours.
Spoiler alert, some fud-spreading people say bevs are crap because of this
@[email protected] agree, I manage to charge 37kWh in 8 hours on 240V 12A (at home)
during off peak which costs next to nothing
@[email protected] I think we need to both home charging and work place charging. The 8-9 hours we spend at the work place is also perfect time to AC charge our cars. It has other bottlenecks (not enough power provisioned by utilities, managing the queue of cars for small number of EVSE, etc.) but they are solvable problems.
@[email protected] Absolutely! That's what I mean by more AC charging everywhere.
@[email protected] I bought a spray can of windshield deicer to solve the problem of icy EV power connectors in New England. It would be nice if the handles were heated.