The three presidents before Lincoln all tried negotiating. They ended up capitulating to the south. They're considered three of the worst presidents in US history. After Trump
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
340 points (95.9% liked)
politics
19072 readers
4642 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
But Andrew Johnson, who was president after Lincoln, is absolutely up there in terms of terribleness, seeing as he kneecapped any real punitive action on the vast majority of major confed leaders and the south in general, leading directly to Jim Crow, as well as making the “southern strategy” a viable tactic, and ultimately leading to the mutation of the GOP into what it is today - including Trump.
Boothe is getting exactly what he wanted albeit almost 160 years later.
He assassinated Lincoln in an effort to destabilize the union and liberate the south. He wasn't aware that the war was essentially over at that point and that only a few Confederate militias remained.
Well, putting Johnson in office ended reconstruction and put into motion everything listed in the above comment.
Now we're in real danger of losing our democracy and we've got a neo-confederate guerilla force that's already trashed the Capitol once and is ready to do it again in 11 months.
And none of this would be happening without Boothe.
And none of this would be happening without Boothe.
It's soo interesting that Kennedy's assassination (which also elevated a VP from the south named Johnson) wasn't ever talked about like it was more of the confederacy being ungovernable over desegregation and civil rights
Speaking of assassinations, MLK had been leading the campaign for civil rights since 1955, but didn't get assassinated until 1968. What else happened related to him in 1968? Well, he had just started pivoting towards the Poor People's Campaign.
Maybe you're right that Kennedy was assassinated because of his support for civil rights (even though MLK was tolerated for another half-decade), but considering all the other leftist domestic policies he was trying to push through in addition to the civil rights stuff, it makes me wonder.
load more comments
(1 replies)
There's a lesson to be learned here about capitulating to evil.
Those abolitionists and their purity tests, never thinking about what abolition will do to the economy.
If you negotiated it, you probably wouldn’t even know who Abraham Lincoln was
What he actually means by this is that he knows most people think Abraham Lincoln was a better president than he was and he can't stand it.
I see you're fluent in narcissist.
Fucking DUBYA was a better President! Like, Trump set the bar on the fucking floor, and now he's trying to dig under it!
Fucking christ, how can anyone take in this verbal diarrhea and think that trump is suitable to work a glory hole, let alone do a serious job? On top of being traitor swine, republicans are dumber than dogshit.
If Trump were working a glory hole you'd have people accusing you of abusing the mentally handicapped. Not even joking.
Yeah man. If i walked up to a gloryhole and a river of shit was flowing out of it, I'd just leave.
Because cult brainwashing is a powerful thing.
The fact of the matter is that slavery was negotiated endlessly. The north and south argued about it ferociously, and there were dead ass fist fights in Congress about it. Remember that the US was hardly the first, and closer to the last, nation in the west (I'm only making this distinction because I know significantly less about this time period outside of the west) to ban chattel slavery, and by a pretty good margin. It wasn't for lack of trying by the north's politicians, but the south had evolved the question of slavery into an existential matter for themselves, and basically said that "without slavery, there is no south". This made it so that every political attack on slavery was framed as an attack on the very existence of the south itself, which made the subject impossible to negotiate on. There's a lot more detail that can be got into here, like the insane performative concessions for slavery (that is, in favor of it) that the south demanded that are reincarnated in the braindead performance politics of MAGA today, but that's a story for another day.
The gist is that when Lincoln, the candidate from the abolitionist party (the republicans. Yeah, a lot has changed lol) won the election, the south had the ultimate shit fit and decided they'd sooner reject the legitimacy of the government than live under a president who, while he probably wouldn't fully abolish slavery, was against it enough to be part of the abolition party. There was no negotiating this; the founding fathers tried it, and people tried it for decades between then and the war, and when faced with the spectre of maybe having to negotiate some change or moderation, the south looked the north directly in the eye and shit its pants as loud and ferociously as possible. You can see this attitude in the Cornerstone Speech (incidentally, it is a wonderful speech to pull out when someone says the war wasn't about slavery), which is a speech by the first VP of the Confederacy about how this war is absolutely 100% about preserving slavery.
https://richardpoe.substack.com/p/how-the-british-caused-the-american
Not unlike Putin today, Lord Palmerston was pushing the South to secede.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I haven't heard of the Cornerstone Speech before, or perhaps I don't remember it from school from many many years ago. But I do wonder how did you hear about it? Class? A book? Would love to know where you acquired some of your US history knowledge because I'd like to know and learn more about the history myself and this seems like a crucial piece of history to know so I do thank you for sharing.
load more comments
(11 replies)
They'll sacrifice their lives for a person who is demonstrably the actual biggest loser in history, and he just gets more loser-y, folks, okay... If any of you are starting to have your memories fade, here's a quick refresher to read this morning and then copy and send to your aunt karen in Missouri.
- 0 re-elections won
- 1 term president
- 2 times impeached
- 3 marriages
- 4 inch lifts in his shoes
- 5 kids, from 3 different mothers
- 6 bankruptcies
- 7 US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police
- 8 trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term
- 9 trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant's legal fees
- 10 years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc)
- 11 trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years
- 12 million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes.
- 13 of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop)
- 14 year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, "Wow! Just think - in a couple years I'll be dating you."
- 15 originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 1,000,000 Americans have since died of COVID and it continues to kill 4 years later.
- 16 years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted "miss teen" pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, "trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew."
- 17 known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors
- 18 gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin's infrastructure bill.
- 19 as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the "misinformation conversation" originated with trump
- 20 the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol.
- 21 gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members "losers" and "suckers" and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly "bone spurs" excuse.
- 22 date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president
- 23 as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off.
- 24 day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse.
- 25 plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
A bit tortured to make that list in a numerical order, but upvoted for the effort. Also - recommend taking away opinions like "most respected information sources in the GOP" - stick to the facts - there are plenty of them.
You also forgot the absolute laundry list of indictements, fraud in his Real Estate business, defrauding his own charity, rape of his ex-wife, COUNTLESS contractors and lawyers left unpaid in his wake, foreign payments while he was in office, etc...
And you don't even have to get into conjecture like selling state secrets, being a Russian asset, Russian mob ties, or the fact that he stinks like B.O. and soiled diapers.
Bro has got the fucking receipts
load more comments
(1 replies)
Reminder, people very much tried to negotiate before and during the American civil war.
The key compromise efforts were basically all around finding a way to let the south keep slaves and continue treating people like property. Compromise efforts did not gain enough support to make it through the legislature.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Trump negotiating before the Civil War: "You can keep the slaves, okay? I say you can keep the slaves, and you know what, the Supreme Court - they say - very fine people - they say that the woke ABOLITIONIST states can't stop you."
Why do they keep talking about Nikki? The Civil War? What was that? She's getting all the attention! So much attention. I better wade in. The civil war... what was it again? Slavery? I bet they could have negotiated to keep slavery. Don't say that part? OK, but I can say negotiation, right?
Hahaha you just made me realize the warmup sessions or whatever he does before the rally must have even better material
Fascist says stupid fashy things, Republicans eat it up like the authoritarian trash they are.
You dummies. You know he says this shit intentionally, yeah?
- He knows his fan base won’t care and probably agree. They’re locked in.
- He knows the media with cover his outrageous statements, so that means…
- He gets another front page/headline/viral bump to get another small piece of the swing voters.
He is an absolute master PR-man, and no one has ever respected that fact to their own detriment.
Disclaimer: I hate the dickhead.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Can't believe his native language is English. I've known 4yr olds more coherent.
Trump's idea of negotiating is simply giving the more evil side whatever they demand, so yeas, I fully agree that Trump would have ended that war in the most pleasing manner. For one side. And then he'd go slave shopping.
He said he was “reading something” so you know he just made it all up.
load more comments
(1 replies)
The Art of The Deal
I'm curious what the reaction of his audience was, though I'm sure they easily agreed.
view more: next ›