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this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Go look at a mortgage or even rent in any major city.
Hi, this is pretty much me, and I concur. If you can't live on $150k then you are definitely making some questionable decisions. That's around $8k/m take home. Even if you are spending $4k on rent/mortgage, you should have plenty left over to live on.
Do you have kids?
I'm pretty sure I covered the questionable decisions.
Yeah, if you're a single man who doesn't have anyone to take care of and has no physical or mental health problems $150k is great. If you're part of a house with two incomes you're probably OK. If you're on a single incoming supporting parents with disabilities, kids, partners with disabilities, or any combination of similar things, you can maybe get by on $150k as long as you never fuck up and everything goes perfectly in your life and you don't care about or try to help anyone else.
Edit: and I say man, because men are less likely to take on caregiver roles that cost large amounts of money.
My wife is disabled FYI. I get what you are saying, but there is still a good amount of wiggle room in our budget. I also still don't really like the idea of lumping kids, which are a choice with a very clear financial impact, in the same category as dealing with illness and disability. That doesn't seem to be a good faith argument.
A society where having kids is an unsustainable financial decision is a society that can't continue to exist, and a society where caregiving for someone with a disability or having one yourself makes life impossible is also a society that can't continue to exist.
There are also a ton of other factors that can easily push someone over the edge. "We have lots of wiggle room" is great for you but lots of people don't... And even if someone did make a mistake, why should some small mistake put someone in inescapable debt?
I just think the idea that $150k is fine and everyone who can't make it is an idiot isn't taking in to account the obvious data that shows the opposite.
It does always strike me as ridiculous when we live in a world where continuing the existence of the human race is considered bad financial planning. No wonder birth rates are declining massively when the incentives are all on personal productivity and streamlining your life rather than having/raising a family. I don't plan to have children for a number of reasons, but the fact that society is filled with active disincentives certainly doesn't help persuade me otherwise.
Kids are not always a choice, especially now that abortion is illegal in so many places.
In addition, the idea that if you don't have enough money then you just don't get to have a family seems abhorrent.
Why would it matter how many people it takes to make the 150k?
If you're making $150k and someone else is making another amount of money...
Then your family isn't making 150k and you're not part of this discussion.
Also if you're making more than 150k and can't pay your bills, I have 0 sympathy for you.
It must feel good to feel superior to all these people who are struggling. I bet that makes you feel really smart and capable.
You wanna stop lashing out and make an actual point?
I make 150k, have 3 kids (one in college), a home, 2 cars, etc and I am most assuredly not living paycheck to paycheck
Good for you. I'm glad you don't care about other peoples problems because you're fine.
That's the opposite of my stance. These people are fine and they're comparing themselves to people who are not.
I own a home just outside of a city and my mortgage is 1060/mo. 3BR, 3 bath, finished basement, on a half acre.
Good for you. I bet you have to drive everywhere and you don't even realize that the cost of the infrastructure to make your life convient is bankrupting your closest city.
What a dumb shit comment lol.
I literally volunteer on campaigns to change local zoning to be more dense and contain more public transport.
"You countered my point so quick let me think up some way to attack you as a person" lol.
Telling people to "go move outside the city like I do" does exactly the opposite of what you say you're trying to support, so why even bring it up?
When you advocate for density, you are de facto arguing to have more people where you are.
Look, I'm glad you're advocating for good things. People need to be doing that. I'm done with the US and I really have no hope for it so it really doesn't matter anymore to me either way. I'm lucky enough that I never have to come back.
It fucking sucks getting gentrified out of places you lived when you're making over $100k, and its absolutely absurd. I live in the Netherlands now. Because there's a functional tax system my neighbors are bike mechanics and students, instead of literally everyone either being a boomer who bought their house in the 80's or a tech bro on a single income. People should be able to live in cities, and cities should be high density. If people say they're struggling on $150k/y then believe that what they're saying is real, because it is. If people are struggling on $150k/y then theres a huge problem. But you know what's nice? It's not my problem anymore.
I really hope your volunteering works out because it's needed.
How were you able to move there? On paper I'm absolutely worthless... I'm stuck in a place I can't afford to stay in, but too poor/undesirable to be welcomed into another country.
I'm really privileged and I sacrificed a lot. It's not an option for most people and if I didn't work for a big evil company I probably couldn't do it. They paid for most of it and organized a lot of it, but it was still a ton of work that we couldn't have done without a bunch of help from our family. Also being fueled by pure terror helped.
As much as I say I don't care, I have so many friends who couldn't do the same thing and are stuck like you. If I thought I could help by staying, I probably would have. I thought about leaving when Trump got elected, but decided to stay and try to make things better. Then I got shot by a Trump supporter. So this time my family and I figured out an exit plan and left. Well... My partner and kids got out, but everyone else is still in the US.
Everyone should have the opportunity to live in a place that makes sense. I wish I could make the US a place with living in. I wish that borders didn't exist.
But if you want to escape to Europe, you want to figure out how to get citizenship in a place in the Schengen zone. The easiest to get in to legally are Spain and Portugal, which are a lot cheaper. It's also easier and cheaper to move if you're not taking anything and not supporting any kids or a partner.
I wish I could give you useful advice.
I appreciate your abrupt change in tone and your effort to engage with me as a person. I feel like we share many of the same goals and ideals, and are not as far apart as pithy comments may make us seem.
I hope the Netherlands is as kickass as I've heard it is from friends
Good thing there are plenty of places to live outside of major cities.
The only people who this isn't a solution for are those who feel they're entitled to live in places they can't afford 🤷
A lot of people like not commuting several hours a day, or having access to actual culture, or not being constantly robbed by meth heads, or not being murdered because of their Identity, or about a million other things that are difficult to impossible outside of cities...
But fuck all the queer and trans people who escaped to the safety of cities. If they can't afford t, they shouldn't be there, right? /s
What makes them exempt from supply and demand?
"The invisible hand" is literally a metaphor for god. Sorry, I'm not in the capitalist suicide cult.
So... what do we do when there is scarcity?
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Totally. I wish we lived in a culture that valued taking excess from those who have it and giving it to those who need it.
We have to create that culture. You're not alone. That's the world that most people want to live in. The more we talk to each other and the more we're able to connect, the more we can work together to make that happen.
There's obviously enough for everyone, but we choose to pretend there isn't. We choose to pretend that the people who artificially restrict access to things people need to survive are ligitmiate and have the right to restrict access to food and housing. We pretend the people who enact that violence on behalf of these borders are heros. We pretend the imaginary rules they enforce on us have power. We pretend paper and imaginary numbers should dictate who lives, who dies, and who has the right to dictate the actions of others.
We're playing a game together with made up rules. We pretend that there isn't enough so that people who have too much can take even more from people who don't. This is a stupid game that we should stop playing. Just by being aware of this, we can start to change the rules.