this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
601 points (85.7% liked)
People Twitter
5145 readers
1006 users here now
People tweeting stuff. We allow tweets from anyone.
RULES:
- Mark NSFW content.
- No doxxing people.
- Must be a tweet or similar
- No bullying or international politcs
- Be excellent to each other.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Gotta be honest with you, arguments about colonization kind of ring hollow when they were literally the original tribes living there and then had their lands colonized away from them, but still form a cohesive ethnic group thousands of years later. Unless we've started to impose some arbitrary statute of limitations I'm not aware on colonialism so that we exclude Israel from being colonized and the Jews exiled? Denying Jews rights would be par for the course throughout history I guess. I condemn acts of genocide, but I'm not going to say Jews don't have some rights to the territory.
The same people saying Jews are colonizers will also talk about how literally any other ethnic group (especially Native Americans) should be given their land rights back. Their reasoning gives me a headache because it's cognitively dissonant, and I've had a few agree and realize the situation is much more complicated and nuanced after I pointed the double standard out to them.
If we want to criticize the Israel state and their military for their policies and actions, giddy up. I'm on board. If we want to have discussions about colonialism, sorry, but I'm getting off this ride because I can't justify moralizing over it
Wtf you are talking about?
Millions died in deconlization wars throughout the regions and you say "it is fine with them"!
That's misleading.
Current Palestinians are native to the land, they are descendent of the "early Jew". They might change language or religion to be: Palestinians Jew, Arab Jew, Palestinians Christian, or Palestinians Muslims Arab.
You can read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DIn_recent_years%2C_genetic_studies%2Care_related_to_each_other.?wprov=sfla1
In fact reading about European Jew Genetics say they are different:
"Genetic studies indicate that Ashkenazim have Levantine and European (mainly southern European) ancestry. They draw diverging conclusions about the degree and sources of European admixture; some focus on the European genetic origin in Ashkenazi maternal lineages, which contrasts with the predominantly Middle Eastern genetic origin in paternal lineages."
Further more they were not "exiled":
"Jews migrated to southern Europe from the Middle East voluntarily for opportunities in trade and commerce. Following Alexander the Great's conquests, Jews migrated to Greek settlements in the Eastern Mediterranean, spurred on by economic opportunities. Jewish economic migration to southern Europe is also believed to have occurred during the Roman period."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DEarly_Jewish_communities_in_Europe%2C-Beginning_in_the%26text%3DJews_migrated_to_southern_Europe%2Cspurred_on_by_economic_opportunities.?wprov=sfla1
Even then, the reason why they are occupier is because they act that way, they commited multiple documented massacres, admited by their own soldiers, and refuse the right for people who fled war to comeback.
Reading about colonization of North America gave a lot of insight and the similarities are fucked up.
What even worse is, the literally desrroy people farms and homes and kick them out to live there, compare to North America where people might lived in new cities.
Here read about the village that become a resort and they build a car park on top of mass graves.
The Tantura massacre took place on the night of 22–23 May 1948 during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, when around 40-200 Palestinian Arab villagers from Tantura were massacred by the Alexandroni Brigade, which would shortly thereafter become part of the newly formed Israeli Defense Force. The massacre occurred following Tantura's surrender, a village of roughly 1,500 people in 1945 located near Haifa. The victims were buried in a mass grave, which today serves as a car park for the nearby Tel Dor beach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantura_massacre?wprov=sfla1
But that's also misleading.
This is sort of disingenuous because even your own article talks about many other reasons for the migrations that you're leaving out.
Jews migrated at various times throughout their history, either through direct exile or religious persecution that resulted in migrations. Some notable events are these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Destruction
There were events such as these of compulsory migrations along with voluntary ones motivated by religious persecution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora
The genetics thing is more or less true implying there was still a continuity of people in the region, although Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Christians are still closer genetically to the Jewish diaspora than Palestinian Arabs, who seem to see themselves as culturally and ethnically distinct from Jews (and vice versa), despite all evidence to the contrary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Paternal_line
I guess the question is whether Jews and Palestinians can reconcile things based on their shared history and genetic grounds following Arabization. I'm definitely not saying Palestinians have no right to those lands either, but the current situation most definitely is in part the result of colonization of the Jews/Palestinians at various points throughout their history. So I still feel it's odd to call them colonizers depending on how far back your lens of history goes.
Does that mean people should be slaughtering each other? No, absolutely not. I'll read up on Tantura.