News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
No I am saying Hamas committed an atrocity. There is no escaping that. Throwing in spurious figures regarding Israeli competence does not alleviate that.
There are many wrong in this. It is hard to find any rights at all from any side. Ignoring all the wrongs that have been committed by both sides will not solve the issue. Parties need to recognise that shit is being, and has been done. It should not be buried with BS in a cheap effort to dilute responsibility.
Basically both of you think the other one is trying to shift blame, when in actuality you're trying to make sure both are blamed.
Sums up a lot of arguments over this war.
Precisely, there is no innocent party in this conflict.
And yet, by your very own bullshit IDF soldiers shooting civilians are indeed innocent because it's all Hama's fault.
"there is not innocent party in this conflict" is not some solve-all catchphrase to get rid of criticism. It needs to actually be applied and those soldiers need to scrutinized for what happened there.
IDF should be held to account also. I never once made excuses for the crimes of others. You want a cheap get out to deflect blame. I don't accept that.
No, I want Isreal's government and military to account for the things they did and not get a free pass because "BuT hAMaS".
You however have fully eaten up the propaganda of how everyone questioning Israel is somehow magically supporting Hamas and trying to deflect from their terrorist acts. And only when you realize that your bullshit claims like
don't fly, you pay lip service to allegedly being critical of both sides, only to then instantly continuing to blame Hamas for Israel killing people.
So you want Israel to investigate errors of judgement that were made under duress. Without a doubt where errors are made then countries need to learn from them. Just remember those errors were caused by the actions of Hamas.
And, where did I say Israel supported Hamas? It is not a claim I have ever made. You are misquoting yet again to twist your narrative.
So first you lied about things you wrote in this very thread and you now you went over to intentionally misreading what I wrote to make accusations (and while I didn't talk about Israel supporting Hamas here -maybe you are confusing things you read here with the ones on your spreadsheet of talking points-, Israels government indeed supported them financially and that's as well documented as other things you deny)? How about you bother someone else with your crude propaganda techniques?
/ignore
"I cannot substantiate my point so I am not talking to you."
A pretty pathetic response. Peddle your narrative elsewhere please.
"I lie, then I maliciously misread comments to lie some more and then I lie and pretend the points weren' substantiate. To then tell everyone how I bravely "won" an argument because ignoring my lying ass is somehow "pathetic"...
Here's a piece of colored chalk. Please go and paint some pretty pictures on the closest highway.
I thought I was being ignored.
This very much depends if Israel can prove Hamas were using it as a base. I have seen the videos with the tunnels they have released. That still does not prove it is a base though. Hamas will state they wanted quicker access to medical supplies. Israel needs to prove fighting took place from there.
Israel has been caught tampering with/fabricating evidence more than once (remember the calendar)? If they had real evidence they'd have published it already.
Do you expect anything else? This is why it needs an independent review. Israel's say so alone is not enough.
There should be an independent review of both Hamas and the IDFs actions.
Not looking like Israel is going to listen to anyone right now. Hamas only has one control point, and Iran is not looking like it is going to reign them back in. The only review will be from the people who are suffering due to their actions.
And nobody said that Hamas terror acts were not an atrocity. What was instead criticised is the fact that IDF soldiers also taking their part in killing civilians there is completely and pointedly ignored.
Which you then justify with some bullshit of how it would not have happened without the Hama's attack in the first place.
So my point stands: If you think that soldiers indiscriminately shooting civilians is to blame solely on Hamas, then police shooting civilians while trying to stop a robbing is to be blamed solely on the robber, too.
Wait what??
IDF was there killing civilians too?
There are reports that IDF members were there, too. Shooting back amid civilians. It was probably chaotic and nobody actually knows who was shot by whom, because Israel is refusing to even investigate. In fact they also refuse to make public how many IDF members were there and how many died or how many Hamas members died. They only categorically tell us a total number, implying all dead were peaceful civilians killed by Hamas.
(I’m sorry if this appears multiple times. My lemmy client is giving me errors as I try to save this comment)
Active IDF members, or just citizens armed and trained from their days as active IDF?
You say they were shooting back from amid civilians. That’s not them participating in the massacre at all. That’s them defending the civilians. The best way to suppress gunfire coming into a group of people is to send gunfire back at the source.
Shooting a gun requires aiming, aiming requires looking, and looking requires exposing your head. This is why you can suppress gunfire by firing in its direction. The person has to choose between continuing to fire at you, and protecting their own head.
I say head because that’s basically what you need to expose in order to fire, if the rest of you is in cover. If the attackers aren’t in cover then firing back at them is even more effective because unless they stop firing and get to cover their entire body is in danger.
So firing back is totally legit behavior if that’s all they did.
Do you have any reports of IDF firing on other festival attendees?
I doubt very much that it is being ignored by the families of those involved. I highly doubt that Israel will be honest regarding the facts. But again there is a huge difference between blue on blue events and deliberate murders. Or are you suggesting Israel killed civilians deliberately also?