this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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Antiwork
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
The new place for c/[email protected]
This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Subscribers: 2.1k
Date Created: June 21, 2023
Library copied from reddit:
The Anti-Work Library 📚
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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Skilled labor is economists jargon, so the meaning of it does not match the dictionary definition.
No one is saying there is literally no skill involved in unskilled labor.
Skilled labor = real human deserving of a fair wage.
Unskilled labor = meat machine that we need to pay by law, but we gladly wouldn't pay them a dime if we could get away with it because they aren't real people.
-Asshat Owners
Technically skilled as in requiring education (financed by the state), unskilled can learn on the job within days.
But politics has a way with twisting those words into a us/them dichotomy.
I’m a software engineer. There’s people on my team that went to Yale for computer science. There’s also people on my team that took a six month coding boot camp. They’re both great at their jobs.
Specifics of software engieneering. Doesn't work with civil engieneering, electrical engieneering and many other fields.
I agree, I was purely agreeing with
I still think the formality of some fields is still too “can you afford it,” but that’s for another topic
You can't learn those things online or in books?
in six months
It's bullshit and we both know it. Don't pretend that following an existing protocol for building bridges safely is so hard and requires education that I can't get in 6 months.
It's not like engineers are allowed to do whatever they want, they have rules to follow, none of which will be told to them in university because universities are worthless.
And this is why I said you can't learn civil engieneering in six months.
I don't need 6 months.
Some people just can't be trained to write code. You still need the aptitude at the end of the day.
For me it's not really an us/them opposition, my disgust is with how unskilled laborers are viewed/treated because of our lack of education. That somehow makes us subhuman and undeserving of a living wage. That we should be thankful for a minimum wage.
I have no issue with skilled laborers, I have an issue with owners/CEO/etc... us laborers of all skills are in the same boat. Best friend works for Intel, Intel makes tons of money, friend gets pay cut and added responsibility. ¿Que?
The problem lies in the fact that we need to categorise these subjects to write more effective policy. And it doesn't matter what words you use, they always get these connotations as familiarity grows.
To add to this, the whole education level dictates importance thing never made sense to me anyways. I may see a doctor once or twice a year, but I need garbage collected every week. On the level of social importance it strike me then that the garbage person is therefor more important than a doctor.
I think its unintended but by that definition then carpentry or other trades which used to be learned by apprenticeship on the job aren't skilled?
Education requires no skill, you just kiss professor's ass and do as you're told, your reward is a diploma. Here, is that reductionist enough for you?
By the way, cashier job can't be learned within days, you need to be literate and know at least basic math and average kid goes to school for at least 8 years so fuck you. I can't even think of a job that requires no education.
Some more sarcasm and condescension
What constitutes skilled labor and who should be paid a living wage are two distinct conversations.
Is it made less difficult to achieve a living wage for everyone by affirming, or by challenging, the practice of characterizing some labor as "unskilled"?
What it does it make you sound like a dunce for pretending like there aren't many many jobs that require special skills.
What you're doing is applying manipulative tactics and blatantly lying to further an agenda rather than just applying simple logic and reason. When you do that, you inhibit the cause you claim to support.
You seem to be inserting an appeal to purity, by characterizing certain skills as "special".
No shit.
An appeal to purity is not good, in case you are not aware if the term.
Maybe you should try some of that logic and reason I was speaking about earlier rather than pointing to Wikipedia articles you don't understand and pretending like it makes you right.
I asked you a particular question, and you have since returned only hostility and insultation.
Do you have any contribution relating to the question I asked, or to the concern that it carries no particular meaning merely to assert that some skills may be given the characterization "special"?
The only question you asked of me, I answered plainly and in no uncertain terms, even though it's the wrong question.
I asked you a question, which you may easily find earlier in the thread, and your response was of deflection and insultation.
Do you have any contribution that is thoughtful and constructive?
If you're just going to keep reposting the same comment, I'm not going to continue engaging with you.
You have not engaged, only deflected.
What comment have I reposted?
I only asked that you move beyond insults.
Sure. To the economist the terms are jargon, but to the bootlicker they are sacred words. Your heresy is unwelcome.